“Anglish”

@ Stanmund:

Flounder (the flat fish) is is from Normaund 'flondre', which itself is from O.N. flythra.

"BTW, most "academics" are Francophiles and Latinophiles."
Is that what it takes to get a Latino woman?

@jayles: Pretty much....

A whole writeup of someone thoughts on the etymology of Turbot...

http://www.staff.hum.ku.dk/mjd/etcib/turbot.html

1) 'The holy trinity' -> 'the holy threesome' ???? (but it sounds like a romp)
2) Usage of "of"; as I understand it this was used to translate the french "de" in both its partitive and possessive meanings by academics and church people from the middle english world. However it really is a non-germanic usage, and doubles the grammar,...
for instance: the sister of the duchess of York - > the Yorkduchess's sister.
(and what about duchess?)

Wlyan138, if you are as wordful in Anglish as you seem and if you wish to further its note/brook(-ness) and help it gain exposure (outsetness?) to the (Englishspeaking) world, I suggest (and would like for you to) overbring/translate Wikipedia writ/article into Anglish.

If you want to start with topics closely akin to English, Anglish, or Anglo-Saxon like yore/history/yore and speechcraft/linguistics, ok. But I suggest overbringing/translating writs about nowa/modern day things. Instead of overbringing the Wiki writ on the Norman Infall into Anglish, what about World War I and II instead? Overbring or write writs about nowa happenings (current events) and put them on Wikipedia. I would love to read about the "War on Terror" and other nowa happenigs in Anglish

1) This is an example of a word that should stay because the meaning is tied to Christianity. The idea developed from the church, and was brought to folks of all stripes. Although, if one really wants to Teutonicize it, The Holy Three-in-One, The Holy Threefold, Godhead...

2) Yes, 'of' is French 'du', Polish '-ski', German 'von' (from 'x' land, kingdom, house), 'zu' (names the land which is ruled over by that noble), or sometimes 'von und zu' (from and ruler of...), Dutch 'van', asf. How is it "non-Germanic usage"?

3) Duchess, Duke, Count, Viceroy, Vassal, Serfs and the like were all outside English at one time. The Normans brought these ranks along with the idea of the Feudalism (from Gothic *faihu) to England. It was the way that the Franks had put their society together. It was a medieval pyramid scheme: only one guy wins.

Earl/Jarl, Baron, Baronet, Knight, King, Queen, Marquis, Margrave, all have Germanic roots.

Instead of:

Duke---> English could use Herzog (Old English Heretoga 'army leader'. Cf. Old Frisian hertoga leader of an army, duke; Old Saxon heritogo, Old High German herizoho, herizogo, Old Norse hertogi)

Count---> Earl/Jarl

And so forth.

Wlyan138:

One of the Anglo-Saxon ways to speak about 'terror' was with the O.E. word 'folcegesa': "something that causes fear among the folks".

O.E. folc "people" + O.E. eġesa "to terrorize, to greatly frighten (from O.E. eġesian "to terrify").

O.E. eġe is Mod.E. awe (with some bearing on O.E. eġe from ON agi "fear" as seen in the Mid.Eng aghe).

So it would be >> Folkawe = "to terrify, terrorize people". Maybe, Folkfear? Folkslaughter? Call it what it is....today 'terror' is less about fear and more about death.

Just trying to help....

The Trinity as spoken about in Old English

"Fæder and sunu and frofre gæst"..."in þrīnesse þrymme wealdeð". (note the single form of 'wealdan' is used)

Trinity in Old English is written in many ways, such as...

...þrīnesse (ðrynesse , ðrīnesse); OHG thrinissi, ON threneng
...þrȳnes (þrīnes)
...ānnesse, ānnes (OHG einissi, ON eineng, Ger. einig)

"...ne synd þæt þreo godas þriwa genemned, ac is an god, se ðe ealle hafað, þa þry naman þinga gerynum..."

"...þonne seo þrȳnes þrymsittende in ānnesse..." (727 AD)

So, threeness, thriceness in today's English, maybe?

@Stanmund: "...should be loads of other names knocking about to replace: Sole, Plaice..."

Plaice >> O.E. fage, facg

Sole >> O.E. floc

Salmon >> O.E. læx (lox)

Sparus Aurata (Gilt-headed Bream) >> O.E. ðunorbodu

Gudgeon (Gobio) >> O.E. blæge

Dolphin >> O.E. mereswin

Moray Eel >> O.E. merenæddra

Mullet >> O.E. heardra

Sturgeon >> O.E. styria

They are out there...

I forgot...

...Trout >> O.E. sceóta
...Pike >> O.E. hacod (lit. "hooked fish")

...Mussel >> O.E. musla (OE musla (also the sense of 'little mouse') is not from the Latin musculus, but is an original Germanic word. Both the L. and the Gmc are from PIE *muHs-)

...Torniculus (type of sea snail) >> O.E. pinewincla (fused in modern English with 'periwinkle', but is not from Latin. It is an original Germanic word.)

Ængelfolc: "Three-In-One" was the brand name of an lubricatigt oil in my youth. I used it on my bike. It is the connotations which give us cause for mirth.

Re "of": I wasn't very clear: I was thinking of phrases such as "the book of John", "a book of poetry" , "trousers of leather", where "of" is used to introduce a descriptive phrase, french styl, instead of something more Lederhosen-ish.

Finally, more travail, seeking to explicate the word "introduce" to a student, I flipped back to the beginning of the unit, only to find some smart bloke had used "lead-in" instead; and "foreword" at the beginning of the book. Now while it's nice to be anglish-minded, "introduce" and "introduction" are both in the top one thousand words of modern english and people ned to understand them. But so the evil contagion of Anglish smote......

Finally finally, I do struggle a bit with OE, never having learnt it and all,
лушче по-русский

@jayles:

"three-in-one" see my other writings on the Trinity.

The way "of" works in your examples is perfectly good Germanic stæfcræft (grammar). Just as an Englishman can also say "leather trousers", nowadays a Dutchman can say "broeken van leer", but "lederhose" when talking about the German kind. A Swede could say "läderbyxor" or "byxor av läder"; A Norwegian "lærbukser" or "bukse av lær"...and so on.

It is understood that Globalish has to be taught when one is a teacher. One has to show what "introduce" means. I get it. It's a job. It doesn't make it easier to take.

Glad to know that someone wrote the English words for "introduction" in the book! LOL!

Sorry, I do not read Cyrillic, but there are many good books on Old English. Old English is not really needed to speak true English. All one needs is a thesaurus and an English etymological dictionary.

Cheers!

@jayles:

Too cheeky...you always are writing that Anglish cannot be understood by the masses. I was only putting forth that there are words today that can be said instead of the Latinate ones. And, the best way to find out which ones those are is to look them up with a thesaurus and an English etymological dictionary. Most folks wouldn't take (or have) the time, but this a way true English can be brought back.

As for modern languages being more useful, I think they are no more useful that the older ones, like Old English. Learning Latin and Old English will help in broadening anyone's understanding of what we know today as English. Its not needful to learn the old to speak good and true English. That's all I was saying.

In case one was wondering what the words in today's English literally look like:

Treatise >> O.E. Lǣdenbōc >> "Latin book"

Reptiles >> O.E. Nǣdercynn >> "Netherkin"

Mutability >> O.E. Āwendedlicnes >> "Shiftable likeness"

to be Proud/ Arrogant >> O.E. Āhlǣnan >> "to own + to lend"

Despondency >> O.E. Mōdsēoc >> "Mood sick"

Agriculture >> O.E. Eorþtilung >> "Earth tilling"

Proclamation >> O.E. Frēabodian >> "Leader announcement"

Some Folk Names in Old English:

Norþmandisc >> Norman

Normandig >> Normandy

Norþscottas >> Scots

Norþwēalcynn >> Bretons, Welsh

Norþlēode, Anglþēod >> Anglii

Eotalware >> Italians

Lǣdenware, Rōmw(e)alhe, Rōmāne, Rōmware >> Romans

Langaland, Denemearc >> Denmark

Frankland, Francrīce >> France

Francan >> French folks

Eotenas >> Jutes

Swēoþēod >> Swedish folks

Swēoland, Swēorīce >> Sweden

þā Deniscan >> the Danes

Dene >> Danes

"Instead of:

Duke---> English could use Herzog (Old English Heretoga 'army leader'. Cf. Old Frisian hertoga leader of an army, duke; Old Saxon heritogo, Old High German herizoho, herizogo, Old Norse hertogi)

Count---> Earl/Jarl

And so forth"

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Herzog/Heretoga/Hertugi = 'Hertug' in Danish, so maybe 'Here(s)tug' in nowadays English.

(Here)ford, tug, 'tugger' 'tug of war' 'tug of here' 'war tug' 'war cog' 'heretug' 'herestug' (?)

'drag queen' drag king' ''drag here' 'heredrag' 'Hardraw Force/Foss, Yorkshire' (?)

'kill tug' i.e 'killing machine' (?) etymology of name 'kellogg' rather than 'kill hog' (?)

p.s:

guessing German 'Herr' is from Herzog

how about 'tugger' making a good shortened name for 'heretug'

Furthermore what about 'sprog' in 'army sprog' -- 'here sprog' ?

@Stanmund:

"Herzog" has Here, heer "army" in it. "Herr" nor "Here,Heer" is not from "Herzog".

Herr Gothic harjis, Danish hær, German heer, O.E. here (also fyrd), Old Saxon heri.

English 'harry' (to ravage) is from OE hergian (to destroy, lay waste to) with bearing from Norse herja (OE herg- + ON herja).

Herr "gentleman, sir, superior, master, lord" is from P.Gmc. *hairaz "old, venerable" >> ON hárr "gray", herra "to knight", OE hār, OHG hēr, Old Saxon hērro, Gothic hais.

"how about 'tugger' making a good shortened name for 'heretug'" I do not think so.

@Stanmund: "Furthermore what about 'sprog' in 'army sprog' -- 'here sprog' ?"

Look up the way in which this word is meant in Australian slang. I hardly think it a good fit for your meaning.

Why try to make a new word when 'heretoga' already is an English word? The words 'here' (army), 'herebert' (skillful army general), 'hereberga' (army barracks), 'heregyld, heregeld,heregeold' (military tribute), herewǣpen (war weapon), herewic (military encampment) asf, are all Anglosaxon (English) words that sadly were put aside. 'Heretoga' is an everyday Teutonic word. Today, 'here' is at the roots of the verbs harry and harrow.

Ængelfolc: "Most folks wouldn't take (or have) the time," (to find real enlish words)
I agree. Absolument!
"Most folks" wouldn't even have the inclination either. They are not exactly marching on the streets demanding a return to anglosaxon roots, are they? How might we change this?
Twoothly, (as owls say) who are "most folks"? I take it you meant native english speakers. IMHO they are in danger of being swamped by waves of immigrants, in much the same way as the Celts were after the Romans left England.
We should also think about how everyone is going to be fed too. When I was born there were less than 2 billion homids on this planet, now there are 7 billion and we are probably heading for over 9 billion in the next few decades. Given the limits of our current agriculture to produce enough fodder, how many are going to care about which word is really Saxon or not?
As Karl Marx said: Give them the means of self-destruction, and they will surely use it.
Lastly I use "put forward" instead of "suggest" as it already exists as a phrasal verb.
Denk mal daran!

It's funny how "hercog" is in hungarian and I never consciously connected it with German. I must be a right herbert!

@jayles: "When I was born there were less than 2 billion homids on this planet, now there are 7 billion "

If this is true, you should be around 83+ years old. Hmmm.

I have read that the "Day of 7 Billion" is to either be 26 Aug 2011-July 2012. And? What can be done to stop the population from growing? What ever happened to "natural selection"? Steve Jones (University College London)has put forth that humans are "10,000 times more common"...so he means that there should only be around 700,000 human beings? Paul Ehrlich (writer of the book,"The Population Bomb") said that "We [humans being] will breed ourselves into oblivion." Really? Do tell...

Of course, the "father" of this idea, as we all know, was Thomas Malthus' "An Essay on the Principle of Population as it Affects the Future Improvements of Society, with Remarks on the Speculations of M. Godwin, M. Condorcet and Other Writers".

Look on the bright side, if Japan continues with their "anti-human" policies, by the year 3000, only 500 Japanese will be living! ;-) That's about a 99.999608027594851322044528065224% reduction in the Japanese population! Wow!

Think about this, most women in European countries are NOT helping those countries (Spain, England, Germany, Denmark, asf) maintain the population. Europe is not doing itself, or the World, any noble service. In fact, 83 countries and territories (about 44% of the World population) are thought to be in the "below-replacement fertility" mess.

It is worth looking at 'mean global age'. In 2050, it is estimated to be 38 years. Curiously, in 2010 it was 28.4 years. What could this mean?

May I put forth this website as a place to "denk daran": http://www.pop.org/projects/debunk-overpopulation-myth

"how many are going to care about which word is really Saxon or not?" Good thing FOOD, HUNGRY, THIRSTY, NEED, HELP, THANK YOU, and GOD are ALL worthy Anglo-Saxon words!

My 2 Marks. Now back to Ænglisc.

There are many, many Germanic borrowings in the tongues East of Germany...take a look at Polish and Czech. Spelling is a slightly off, but the word and meaning are still the same.

Not quite yet, Shall we make it 2.5 billion at birth? Must use my glasses more....

That would put you in the 61-65 range. World pop in 1950 was 2,521,000,000. ;-)

Yes the question remains however will the number of native english speakers rise or fall in the next few decades, and how many will be motivated to clean up English? Or how would one motivate them?

Incidentally where I live sheep used to outnumber humans by 25:1. but it's less so now.

"Or how would one motivate them?"

How were they "motivated" to dirty it up?

Ængelfolc: "most women in European countries are NOT helping those countries ....... maintain the population" I believer you have the wherewithal to correct this situation... go forth and spread yourself as wildly as possible in the name of Anglish!

Attacking the church and academia will indeed bring peril to your soul

It is quite true that as children native speakers learn phrasal verbs and mostly saxonesque wordstock first, and only come to the more academic and latinate words as a result of compulsory education.

Academia is a tough target; it would be easier to target business via plain-speaking; this would then provide a platform to influence academics

@jayles:

Yes, I'll breed true English speakers!! LOL! Funny enough, I read a letter from our parish priest, and reckoned the percent of Germanic and Latinate words. What did I find? Astonishingly, it turned out to be roughly 80% English, 20% Latin. There is hope!

@jayles:

Yes, I think you have something there...going after businesses would be better. I am a businessman, and was curiously looking over a letter from an engineer to see how much of the words were actually Latin (like I did with the church letter). Again, I was shocked! About 75% of the words in the letter were Germanic. It seems that it is only in academic circles where we see a lot of Latin and Greek.

@jayles: "Attacking the church and academia will indeed bring peril to your soul"

LOL! I think not...peril to a mainstream academic career maybe! I don't mind that. Who said anything about attacking the church? I can more easily accept their input into English, than that of wanton academic borrowing.

Folks wanting to find out how to make headway in cleaning English of most of the foreign words should read about Philipp von Zesen and Joachim Heinrich Campe. Their work in part was making German words to put in stead of foreign ones, and then popularizing them. All I can say is, it worked rather well.

Also, it is likely that not many Englishmen are aware of William Barnes and his book, "Elements of English Grammar " (London, 1842). His goal, which he took very earnestly, was to "keep up the purity of the Saxon English language". He also wrote "Outline of English speech-craft" (1878).

"England is Gothic by birth, Roman by adoption." -George Perkins Marsh, pg.18, "The Goths in New England" (1843)

Thoughtfully well said!

"'kill tug' i.e 'killing machine' (?) etymology of name 'kellogg' rather than 'kill hog' (?)"

KELLOGG, Kellock (ME kellen (also killen, cullen) + hogg) means "one who kills hogs", a butcher. The name is first found in Essex court rolls as Kyllehog from 1277 AD. The name is often confused with the Hiberno-Norse name Kjallák(r) (from Irish Ceallach

Ængelfolc: a) I introduced the topic of overpopulation to highlight the relative importance of Anglish; there are I believe more pressing issues. As I understand it wheat for Rome was mainly grown around Carthage and over the centuries this led to the deforestation and desertification of what is now Tunisia. So all I am suggesting is that it might be more important to focus our attention on, say, colony collapse disorder of honeybees, than worrying too much about latinate words in English.
b) I do understand your interest in etymology and in a way it is a shame that you are not already working in some academic situation where you could undermine the enemy from within. People might even read your books if your standing were better.
However for all I know your business may be vital to the economy (but hopefully not weapons dealing)

Like the sound of that jayles, though it's beyond words why the world's foremost tongue lacks some kind of etymological rootfinder program giving the stock of highlighted words. Would be also a good little sideworking (feature) of kindles both digitally and whilst skimming books. That it has not been done by now, shows how tinpot the ruling Academicia and the likes OED, Websters, etc are. Maybe a sideworking like this somehow rocks the boat for them (?)

How dose 'sideworking' 'cut it for: 'feature'

/the new 700ZX contains a number of sideworkings/

How about 'againafter' for: 'deja vu'

/it felt like a bit of againafter going on/

Anyone?

@Stanmund: Fr. deja vu means "already seen". Both words, 'already and seen', are Germanic English. There is no need to 'reinvent the wheel'.

I am not sure I see how "side working" would mean "distinctive part". That is how you used the word in your sentence. The English word "hallmark" could be used, and is used in the mainstream today.

@jayles:

a) You are right, there are 'bigger fish to fry', but for this blog, Anglish is what is highlighted and foremost here. There is room for the bigger woes outside of this blog. I myself do worry about and take on these things in my daily life. I hope others do the same.

b) One of the best ways to understand a people (culture and history) is through their language. Yes, from within is the best way to make change in academia. If I got into the club, maybe that would give me a higher standing, and people would care to read my book(s). Although, maybe they will want to read them regardless of the academic critics. J.K. Rowling ring a bell? J.R.R. Tolkien? It took some doing, but they made it beyond the academic wall.

No, I am not a weapons dealer!! My business does fill a great need (legal, moral, and ethical) in the economy.

Ængelfolc: "No, I am not a weapons dealer!! " Of course not, I believe you! No, really, I do.
Rowling? Tolkien? I confess I have read neither. You may shrive me. But successful books today are written alost like plays, eg the da Vinci code, with scenes and dialogs ready for filming. You could write "Earl of the Wings", but "Parry Hotter" is too obvious.

The pitfalls of etymology:
a) session: sitting as in "afternoon session" at the cinema. Oh yes. from sedere to sit (L)
but what about "football practice session" .... they don't sit...

b) introduce: -> "lead-in" . Fine. But introduce is most often a verb "make known"
"May I lead-in my boss Mr Obama?"
"May I make known my boss, Mr Obama?"
It's the formality which is elusive.
c) reduce, deduce, produce, adduce, seduce, (extrajuice please?)
why suddenly "conduct" not conduce, why educate, not educe????
The really interesting thing is how impossible it would be to guess the meanings even if one knew the etymology of the prefix and main verb. Anglish may even suffer the same fate.

@jayles:

a) "football practice session": the meaning of session here (a meeting to perform some deed) is from the legal definition meaning "a continuous series of sittings or meetings of a court, legislature, or the like". It has also been put forward that the thought may have come from "Courts of Quarter Sessions". They were local courts traditionally held at four set times each year throughout the former British Empire.

b) Latin intrōdūcere literally means "to lead/bring inside". Introduce seems to be a more common term when equals are acquainted. PRESENT is taken as the more formal, or so I believe.

c) L. conductus (conduct) is the past participle of L. conducere (conduce). The past part came to mean "to guide, escort; behavior". The L. educate is from L. educatus (pp. of L. educare "bring up, rear". ē- (outside, away) + -duc- "lead" + -ātus - "suffix indicates a borrowing from Latin, but also indicates a process of some kind"). So, "educate" literally means "the process of leading away or to the outside

"I'd like you to meet..." is a nice anglish way of introducing people.
"May I present..." ("Darf ich vorstellen..") is fine in German but too demeaning or snooty for normal business or social life in English. Dangerous to translate verbatim (or word-for-word).
Some words are relatively easy to substitute eg reduce -> cut back (on) (noun cutback)
Others such as education much more difficult eg "learning" 'schooling" "training" all change the underlying concept. "development" would be closer but I guess is french.
Earlier "hallmark" was put forward for "feature" but really a hallmark identifies something, whereas features are the salient points.
Rather than attempting open slather on all alien words I think we need to begin by setting a target of an acceptable level of latinate words in normal "business" or social writing. Every language has borrowings, old and new, the question is how much is okay? and why? what is the criterion? the thing-by-which-we-judge (from the Gk kpnvw to judge)

HALLMARK = feature

"One hallmark of his personality is his drive."

"Honor and integrity will be a hallmark of this administration"

"Restricting abortion has been a hallmark of his career."

It seems to work to mark a 'feature' just fine.

About DEVELOPMENT (develop + ment): Origins have been somewhat cloudy, but new info reveals the following:

develop >> from OFr. desveloper "to unfold, unfurl, unwrap" >> L.des- (dis-) "asunder, undo". veloper "wrap up" >> from V.L. *vlopp-, wlopp- >> PGmc. *wrappan-, *wlappan- (“to wrap, roll up, turn, wind”). Same etymology for 'envelope'; also related to 'warp' and 'wrap'. Cf. Mid. Eng. & O.E. wlappen,

-ment >> Latin suffix used to make nouns, and to mark a result/ effect of an action.

The word 'development' is a Latin-Germanic compound that English got later from French...around the 17th century. So, it might be ok to keep it in the English wordstock.

Ængelfolc: Situation normal; alternative words work for some of the meanings and usages but not all. eg a) This year's models include several new safety features
b) Her eyes are her best feature
I don't think hallmark would work well here. To me "hallmark" will always suggest the little markings on silverware which tell you when it was made and where. Dictionaries give about seven usages of feature, so it would be hard to cover with just one substitute.
"Suspend" as in "Japan will suspend production at three nuclear power plants"
Japan will put production on hold at ....
However one can also suspend an employee, etc
Once again we would need multiple substitutes to cover the various usages.
In the end, when we get to technospeak it may be better to stick with the latinate words just so everyone is clear what is meant. I think some of them are there and used because there is no obvious "anglish" alternative. (otherchoice)
Yet again in the same news article I found "painstaking", "stricken" "vow" and other good english words. Journalists and newswriters are usually very good at using "anglish" expressions wherever possible. After all writing is their craft.

Recent studies of Y-chromosome and mitochondrial DNA haplotypes have shown that most of the genetic heritage of the British Isles is from an ancestral Atlantic Coast population group that includes the ancient Iberians, the Basques and the Atlantic-coast French. Anybody who wants to restore the Germanicness (or Theodishness) of English for racist or xenophobic reasons is actually fighting for a seriously ill-conceived cause. In any event, the Anglish movement is not in any danger of taking the Anglosphere by storm. All in all it seems to be harmless and somewhat interesting, if a little eccentric and esoteric.

I was wondering when someone was going to bring up the DNA/Xenophobia argument. It's just plain wrong to put forth such conclusions, as written above, as true, immutable, irrefutable, unchangeable facts. At least, at this point in time. The DNA science, and by extension the arguments, are in their infancy and are going through huge growing pains all the time.

For every study or set of results that show "most of the genetic heritage of the British Isles is from an ancestral Atlantic Coast population group that includes the ancient Iberians, the Basques and the Atlantic-coast French", I can show the exact opposite results "proving" the "Germanicness" of the British Isles. It is inappropriate to argue using genetics because of the ever shifting outcomes. No definitive conclusions have yet been borne out, only opinions and guesses have been given. There are still many assumptions being made across the board, even, and especially, by the Hiberno-Basque-Celtic champions Oppenheimer and Sykes. The truth about British genetics is very likely somewhere betwixt the Anglo-Saxon and Hiberno-Celtic-Basque opinions.

Arguments about race, DNA, xenophobia, asf have no place here, as those involved in this blog are talking about the English language and, to a lesser extent, culture, not race, ethnicity, and certainly not, genes. Language and culture have little to do with DNA, otherwise Normans and Russians would be speaking a form of Old Norse, not Celtic/Gaulish-Roman and Slavic languages.

@jayles: "Once again we would need multiple substitutes to cover the various usages."

Yes! I am with you! I think you are right here, and likely about the "techno" wordstock, too. What else would one call a CD (compact disc)? It goes back to what I said about names of things and thoughts that came to English, like 'potato', 'cross/crucifix', and 'socks'. Although, I see no reason why English-speaking techies couldn't find English names for their future findings.

"Language and culture have little to do with DNA," But what exactly is wrong with beautiful Norman/anglo-french words like "sheriff"; or celtic words like "carry" why would you deny us our heritage? What is the basis for IMPOSING your ideas about what is acceptable English and what is not? or for IMPOSING your Germanic words upon us? Why should we accept it? Why is Germanic better than celtic, better than anything else?
Frankly in Londinium today I hear more Urdu, Gujurati, Arabic, Tamil, Polish, and the rest than English (outside business circles of course). Must all these people too succumb to the Germanic tongue? If not why not?
Now that should stir things up a bit!!! ;=))

@jayles:

1. "sheriff" (O.E. scīrgerefa) is not Norman, French, Celtic, or Latin at all. It is a Germanic English compound word: shire (O.E. scīr) + reeve (O.E. gerefa, O.E. gerēva), meaning "steward of an administrative district." So, there is nothing wrong with this word staying in the English wordstock! You likely meant "bailiff", right?

2. "What is the basis for IMPOSING your ideas about what is acceptable English and what is not? or for IMPOSING your Germanic words upon us?" This is a loaded question! It hangs upon what one means by "English". Truly, English is the brainchild of Germanic folks. It is, in a broad way, the blending of many North and West Germanic tongues (sprinkled with a little Latin from early Roman contact). It is most appropriate to "impose" Germanic words on the tongue itself, indeed when one wants to keep the true English alive. Now, if you mean the globally influenced mongrel tongue that the world claims to speak as English, well then this argument falls upon deaf, culturally relative, ears.

3. "Why is Germanic better than celtic, better than anything else?" Well, Celtic words are of little regards in English. There are hardly any Celticisms in English at all. The verb "carry" has never been in question. Someone already argued thusly: "Carry is fully anglicized ie it operates as a phrasal verb and in compounds using English prefixes." Moving on, no one ever said that Germanic was better than Celtic or whatever. The same could be asked about the late rebirth of Cymraeg. On 9 Feb 2011, the Welsh Language Measure received Royal Assent, assuring its "official status". Minister for Heritage, Alun Ffred Jones, said, “The Welsh language is a source of great pride for the people of Wales..." Mr. Ffred's words wreak of a Pan-Celtic, ethno-nationalistic, highly ethnocentric hate-speech, right? Pride for the Welsh? What about the other 95% of Great Britain who are non-Welsh? Have they no right to be proud? Next, they should stop calling themselves WELSH, don't you think?

4. "Frankly in Londinium today I hear more Urdu, Gujurati, Arabic, Tamil, Polish, and the rest than English (outside business circles of course). Must all these people too succumb to the Germanic tongue?" YES!! You only hear all of those tongues because of the recent settling of great hordes of immigrants. It is like that in most major world cities (i.e. Berlin, New York, München, asf). Outside of the big cities, it is probably a lot less like what you have described.

@jayles: "But what exactly is wrong with beautiful Norman/anglo-french words like "sheriff"; or celtic words like "carry" why would you deny us our heritage?"

Nothing is wrong with non-Germanic words in their own tongues. And, no one is denying anyone interest in, or pursuit of their own heritage (unless, it seems, it is the pursuit of the rebirth of Germanic Ænglisc).

If one wants to speak mainly French and Latin words, speak French, Spanish, or Italian. If one wants to speak mainly Celtic words, speak a living Celtic tongue like Cymraeg, Brezhoneg, Gaeilge, or Gàidhlig. It is wrong and brazen to over burden English with borrowings from other tongues. Some borrowing is understood. Wanton borrowing, however, that seeks, willfully or otherwise, to crowd out native English words must be boldly dealt with head-on and halted right away...lest English suffer the same wyrd (fate) as Gothic, Vandalic, Greenlandic Norse, Norm, asf.

To start Pan-Celticism in earnest maybe someone could revive Kernewek (3000 speakers)or Gaelg (1700 speakers).

If one speaks English, one should speak English words.

@jayles: "Every language has borrowings, old and new, the question is how much is okay? and why?"

I think there are many "right" answers to this question. Germanic and Roman folks had been in contact prior to the landing of the brothers Hengest and Horsa in 449 AD. It has been said that many millions of Germanic folks were living within the borders of the Roman Empire in the 4th century. What's more, Teutonic traders were doing business with the Romans in Gaulish towns bordering Germania in the 3rd and 4th centuries. Also, lest we forget, Ænglisc was open to Latin through the few Celtic borrowings.

Indeed, it was the Romans war dealings with Germanic folks that brought the most Latin to Ænglisc. There are five areas where Latin borrowing has been plentiful: commercial (trading/agriculture), military, law/government, religion, and intellectual. And, there are five Latin loan time frames that would need to be looked at: Continental Borrowings (before 449 AD), Latin through Celtic (mainly place names, 449 AD-597 AD), Latin through Christianity (about 450 Latin words through Frankish, 597 AD- 1066 AD), the Normans (about 5-10,000 words , 1066 AD-1260 AD), and the Renaissance/Scientific Discover/ Printing Press Era (1500 AD-1800 AD, about 10,000 Latin and Greek words).

I would take out most of the Latin/French/Greek words from 1066 AD onward and put English words in their stead. Often, one finds that two borrowed words can be traced back to the same Latin root! The reason modern English has about 25% borrowed wordstock from Latin and French is mainly due to these last two time-frames.

"Scholars", writers, translators, asf, wanted to replace much of the Norman-French words borrowed earlier, and thought (wrongly) that English (at that time) was not able to create works like could be done in Latin, Greek, or even Italian. They had an intellectual/linguistic inferiority complex likely brought on by the Norman invasion.

These "academics" wantonly translated lots of words directly from the Latin and Greek in the vain, misguided hope that the tongue could be intellectually lifted--or as "W" would say, English needed to be "smartified". ;-p-- and de-Frenchified. These translations were so ridiculous and numerous that the term "inkhorn terms" was used to described the harebrained practice.

We would likely get rid of 15% of the borrowings and doublets by gutting the borrowings from 1066 AD onward. As for a standard, we should average the borrowing rates of all of the other Germanic tongues, and use that average to guide our borrowing rate. This number would also help to reckon, more or less, how much needless, crazy over-borrowing there was from 1066 AD- 1800 AD. The thought with this whole thing (for me) is getting words through Latin/French wanton over-borrowing instead of using the English words already in English. Also,we have to think about words that have been rightly Anglified. Like when a borrowed Latin noun becomes a verb through the addition of a Germanic suffix.

Again, academia and the church are at the forefront! My 2 Marks...

"...to showing..." = the showing

;-o

Translate this to Anglish, please...

The Modern Whig philosophy and principles and the solutions to those principles are all about effectiveness. Whigsapproach each issue on its own and using our Whig philosophy we can approach each issue in a pragmatic way.

Our focus is not on ideology, its on what is most effective. We have our principles which we hold firm to. Where we are pragmatic is in the solutions to those principles. We focus on on what we like, or what you like but what works best and the most effective solutions. Whigs believe that this is what public service is all about.

Pragmatic, balanced and non-ideological approach to public policy puts the American people first.

Solutions-oriented, methodological yet flexible in approach towards ‘centrist’ policy proposals.

Greater citizen participation in the formation of public policy. Highly informed citizens is the new normal.

Focus on core issues that affect all Americans as a whole, not just one group or a few special interest issues.

Freedom of political thought and action, not stuck on ideology.

Historical political truths are replaced by new truths and realities as citizens participate without prior bias using only modern Whig and basic Constitutional guidelines.

Therefore the Whigs are not a traditional political party, nor do we have a traditional party platform. We believe that traditional solutions will remain ineffective.

Whigs practice independent thought, stress citizen participation, want the curtailment of lobby interests, a review of electoral methods, all to ensure a healthy Republic .

The Whig philosophy is a philosophy that stresses method, and seeks to refine or rebuild the methodologies of our representation.

Please explore the following sections to find out more about the Whig Philosophy and Whig Principles.

@addyatg: maybe I will make a go of it....looking it over....it is already made up of about 60-65% true English (Germanic). Let's see who comes up with what.

I think this info fitting to our banter on what is English and what is not. Worth thinking about anyway:

"The Dansk Sprognævn (Danish Language Council) collects and registers all new Danish words. As with all languages, modern Danish is influenced and enriched by foreign words. One of the Council's tasks is to decide which words are considered Danish, and which are loan words. 'Bar', 'bus', 'film' and 'slum' all fit Danish rules of spelling and pronunciation, and so are now considered Danish words, but 'freelance' and 'playboy' are used, but considered mere loan words."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/european_languages/languages/danish.shtml

From the same BBC website, on German:

"Home speakers can be found in France, The Netherlands, Denmark, Italy, Hungary, Romania, Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Kazakhstan and other republics of former USSR."

I want to highlight the use of "Home speakers" here.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/european_languages/languages/german.shtml

"Outside of the big cities, it is probably a lot less like what you have described."
Well maybe up till now You could make a last stand for Anglish in some remote valley in Northumbria, in the hills north of Jedburgh......fending off the incoming hordes.....rather like Arthur did to the Saxons in the first place.

@jayles:

Me thinks it not so grim. Although....

Well, think about the Anglo-Saxon and Norman invasions, and weigh it against today's immigrant invasion. Self-serving Politics is at the root of each with a bit of cultural relativism, a knowledge poor folk, and a brainwashed folk that are told by the "elites" everywhere that their culture is over bearing and shameful (sometimes evil), and nothing to be proud of.

But, the tide can turn...

@ addyatg
easy really, there's your oversetting into anglish, almost no loanwords

The now-time Whig witship and lawlays and the loosenouts to those lawlays are all about bringaboutliness. Whigs go-to each issue on its own and using our Whig witship we can tackle each issue in a deedsound way.
Our mindfasten is not on thoughtlore, its on what is most bringaboutsome. We have our lawlays which we hold strong to. Where we are deedsound is in the loosenouts to those lawlays. We mindfasten on what we like, or what you like but what works best and the most bringaboutly loosenouts. Whigs believe that this is what folkly thaneing is all about.
Deedsound, evenweighty and unthoughtlorely go-to to folkly lawling puts the American folks first.
Loosenouts-minded, waylorely yet bendsome in go-to towards ‘centrist’ lawling putforths.
Greater landflok partaking in the shaping of folkly lawling. Highly intold citizens is the new normal.
Mindfasten on core issues that bestir all Americans as a whole, not only one group or a few sundersome careabout thoughtlings.
Freedom of political thought and deeding, not stuck on thoughtlore.
Yorelorely political truths are insteadened by new truths and realities as landfolks take part without beforely bias using only now-time Whig and groundfast Landlawsome guidelines.
Therefore the Whigs are not a eldways political party, nor do we have an eldways party upheldness. We believe that eldways loosenouts will bide on as unbringaboutsome.
Whigs live out unoffhanging thought, stress landfolk partaking, want the lessening of lobby careabouts, a lookin of electoral deedways, all to ensure a healthy Republic .
The Whig witship is a witship that stresses deedway, and seeks to sharpen or build again the deedwaylores of our aspellings.
Please look through the following offcuts to find out more about the Whig witship and Whig lawlays.

On the other main (ie hand) to teach "deterioration" I began with "worse" -> worsen -> worsening. There really are some words we need to loose.

In the last few days I have specifically taught "unco-operative", "disrespectful" and "sullen". En passant I thought "spy" was from latin but I see it those damn Franks throwing a spanner in the works.
so I can use them when dealing with one particular student. Ah the power of words.
Difficult to distinguish between "sullen' and 'sulky" although "sullen" seems to better describe behavior than personality. Couldn't come up with any real english words for
"unco-operative" or "disrespectful" - open to real-world suggestions.
We test students every week in some way. So we have spreadsheets headed:
"Continuous assessment actuals" - I've made mine "Ongoing assessment actuals"
but balk at "Ongoing rating outcomes". Just sounds like someone rating TV shows.

or something to do with naval ratings...

Also: I wrote this:

"Yes indeed hindsight gives us wisdom,
but with wisdom comes age
and with age comes agues
and in the end death itself
is the end
of wisdom."

Now if we use "ailments' instead of "agues" it just destroys it, makes it sound so banal. So sometimes we need to keep nice (short) borrowed words. Angliscizing everything mindlessly is not always the answer.

@jayles: anglish is hypothetical, it is what-ifly, it often makes wordmeaning clearer than foreing words, but other times wordmeaning cannot as easily be drawn off from the word. Yet what these words: put-forth, lawling, deedway, and so on, all have over foreign words is that they have an inner framework that draws an image to the english speaker's mind. that is not to say that upon first seeing these words, they will be understood, but the same goes, even more so for foreing words. However these anglish words are very powerful in their ability to draw forth image in the mind, they have almost a metaphorical richness that goes far beyond the raw symbolism of foreing wordstock. Unoffhanging and dependent both draw forth the thought of something needing something else. But only unoffhanging draws forth the mindimage of something hanging off of somrthing else, thereby showing dependecy or offhangingness.
Of course jayles, we are not saying that all anglish words would be readily understood, though some indeed would be. What we are saying is that anglish words are richer, truer, and not the cold, raw, frameworkless things that foreign words are. whether this upside of anglish warrants these words being taken up into nowtime english is yours to settle on. I myself will work to see them do so.

what anglish will always be, if nothing else, is the schoolsome follow-after (academic pursuit) of english's germanic side for the sheer glee of doing so, whether or not the masses take on anglish.

@jayles: "Now if we use "ailments' instead of "agues" it just destroys it..."

Well, 'ague' firstly means "fever, shivering (mainly from malaria)" and secondly, "sickness". The word ague is a shortening of the Mid.Fr 'fievre ague' (acute fever)

@jayles: You've found another Frankish word with a little Latin flavor!

Banal > ban (from from Frankish *ban. OHG bannan, pannen & OE bannan is a cognate. ON banna, from P.Gmc. *bannanan) + al (from L. -alis, suffix to make adj.'s and nouns meaning "a kind of" or "like"; first used only with Latin loanwords, but now is fully Anglicized and used with Germanic verbs, too, like bestowal, betrothal.)

"spanner" >> span (O.E. spann/ spannan, P.Gmc.*spannō/*spannanan) + er (from O.E. -ware, P.Gmc. *-warioz)

"Yes indeed hindsight gives us wisdom,
but with wisdom comes age
and with age comes (woe)
and in the end death itself
is the end
of wisdom."

"Yes indeed hindsight gives us wisdom,
but with wisdom comes age
and with age comes (throe(s))
and in the end death itself
is the end
of wisdom."

"Yes indeed hindsight gives us wisdom,
but with wisdom comes age
and with age comes (want)
and in the end death itself
is the end
of wisdom."

@jayles: "We test students every week in some way. So we have spreadsheets headed:
"Continuous assessment actuals" - I've made mine "Ongoing assessment actuals"
but balk at "Ongoing rating outcomes"."

Why not just say "Ongoing assessment outcomes". 2 out of 3 isn't bad. It pretty well fits the ratio of home-to-borrowed words in English anyway.

Ængelfolc : yes I agree and "ongoing assessment outcomes" actually sounds quite normal. I also liked "with age comes ailing". I think I only chose "ague" for the alliteration, but "ailing' is actually better.
I think I was grandstanding a bit anyway.
So you accept that Anglish is just a "bookish pastime", eh?

Ængelfolc: As a matter of curiosity, why is it that we have the "ish" ending on punish, distinguish, embellish, finish, abolish, etc (polish?) when in modern french there is no such ending. Is this an english corruption or some Norman dialect ending?

@jayles: "So you accept that Anglish is just a "bookish pastime", eh?"

No, but thank you for using my Anglicism. As I wrote earlier on, I am not so much on board with "Anglish", but Ænglisc. They are like night and day.

The ending "-ish" is normally a Germanic ending (cognate with Old English -isc, O.H.G. -isc, German -isch, ON -iskr, Gothic -isks, also whence French -esque. The French is from Italian -esco, which is from Gothic and/or Lombardic).

The words you listed have another kind of -ish. It is in truth an Old French ending that is from borrowed Latin i-stem verbs (verbs with infinitives in -ir). The suffix is actually -iss not -ish. The pronunciation was influenced by the Germanic, so yes, an English corruption of the Latin. So...

punish

@jayles: "Couldn't come up with any real english words for "unco-operative" or "disrespectful" - open to real-world suggestions."

disrespectful (insulting) = cheeky, fresh, churlish, boorish, uncouth, wise guy, wisenheimer, or *

*smart-alec(k): (Americanism) An impudent or obnoxiously self-assertive individual, a wise guy, as in New teachers often have a hard time coping with the smart alecks in their classes. This expression, dating from the mid-1800s, probably alluded to a person of this description who was named Alec or Alexander, but his identity has been lost.

SOURCE: "smart aleck." The American Heritage® Dictionary of Idioms by Christine Ammer. Houghton Mifflin Company. 27 May. 2011. .

uncooperative = unhelpful, bullheaded, pigheaded, headstrong, willful, unbending, wayward, unyielding, stubborn, strong-willed

@jayles: Here is a book you may like reading:

The English is Coming!: How One Language is Sweeping the World
By Leslie Dunton-Downer (2010) ISBN 978-1-4391-7665-8

instead of president one could use "burgherking" ;=)

ROFLMAO!!!! HHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That is a really great one, Jayles!!

It is sad that most folks do not know that 'burgher' is an English word that still could be said today.

@jayles: "it is as understandable as the original (which is pretty much hot-air anyway)."

Yeah, the original was not very well written. I can't believe it was from any political writings. I only wanted to show that English is every bit as usable as Latin/French for law/politics/government things.

"uncooperative = unhelpful, bullheaded, pigheaded, headstrong, willful, unbending, wayward, unyielding, stubborn, strong-willed"
eg I do find your behavior rather unhelpful. .......... yes that's very useable thank you.
"pig-headed" I would consider rude.
"headstrong" not rude but not complimentary.
whereas "strong-willed' might be taken as a compliment.
Latinate words are often neutral, and formal, sometimes that's why we use them.
Apropos of nothing, "makacs" and "onfeju" : at least one can be direct in Hungarian.

alright Ængelfolc, here are a few byspells (from anglo-saxon bispell):
wisdom for philosophy: Ya, i went to oxford and i majored in wisdom. Sorry, that doesnt work.
key for solution: Like in, i have found the key to the problem, right? No, once again, that sounds ridiculous, that is a gross warping of the meaning of the word key.
mind for focus: Focus is a state of mind, not the mind itself.

You did not give a word for service, and while meaning might not have been othered here, you fail to show the richness of your "pure" english by failing to show that english trully does have a word for service (anglo-saxon, might i add, did have many words for service, but im not sure where you stand with bringing back anglo-saxon words. you see, you thought what i wrote sounded elvish, well if you want to bring back anglo-saxon words, and i myself am all for that, then english will be sounding very elvish indeed, which in my mind is not a bad thing).

Some more byspells:

outcome for solution: here again, outcome does not mean the same thing as solution. outcomes can be bad, while solutions solve things.
take over for replace: like im going to take my old tire over with a new one. No, take over, does not mean replace, and though you might get away with it in your oversetting, it is a very weak oversetting (old truths taken over by new truths. Does this mean that the new truths are now in control of the old truths, and that the old truths are still there somehow?)

means by which something is done vs. method: One whole phrase for one word, that smells like a weak, poor language to me. Why not think up a new word, tap the potential of english's germanicness. do not fear newness. deedway for method. wonderful, one word for one word, following the wordbuilding laws of english (noun-noun). or will the word deedway lead to the death of english?

Your oversetting is midworthed (mediocre. hmmm, i wonder what your already-existing english word for mediocre might be,). I mean it's okay, but it's easy to see that it is not a loyal, truthfast oversetting.

I mean come on, words like deedway and midworthed are going to lead to the dead of english? thats belaughly, they are made up of english roots. they give off the very being of englishness. they are english indeed.

Ængelfolc: "How about stubborn for pigheaded? I always like to say churlish, boorish, uncouth, or loutish instead of rude"
Yes I agree I feel most latin words borrowed in the last five hundred years are "foreign", and so less emotive. Maybe this is why they are favored by modern managers.
I can call a student (customer, employee or co-worker) unhelpful, stubborn, obstinate, uncooperative, disrespectful, disruptive, sullen, wayward, or headstrong, maybe uncouth too." willful " as in "willful disobedience" is fine too. These words are generally descriptive of observed behavior, rather than an emotional reaction on my part.
I wouldn't risk "pigheaded" nor "idiotic". They give the impression that I myself am too judgemental, reactive and emotional. Bluntly my boss would not support me.
Of course it is all mealy-mouthed, but the way of our PC society today.
Is it not the same in your business life?

"deedway" ??? halvany gozom sincs rola

Nem vagyok mano, se mano-ul beszelek

"byspell" ?? ez biztosan valami mellekbubaj egy torpetol, ugye?

@jayles:

"byspell" is OE bīspel(l), biġspel(l), in use before 990 AD, which meant "example, proverb". It's a cognate with latter-day German Beispiel "example, tale". Zum Beispiel, an abschreckendes/warnendes Beispiel in German means a "cautionary tale".

By-spell (as it is written today) is listed in Webster's Dictionary with only the meaning of "proverb", and is marked as "obsolete".

Ængelfolc: you miss the subtely of english. you think you can do away with words like solution and replace and focus with no afterfollows (consequences. sorry, outcome doesnt work here). The truth is this- many of english's foreign words are very much in everyday-use, and they are used in specific ways. Native english words and their latin equivalents are, well not really equivalent much of the time, they each serve their purpose. You think you can work around this by oversetting words with phrases. Jesus we could lessen the english wordstock by half if you had your way and wouldn't have nearly the richness and power of expression we have today.
Lessening the english wordstock as you do calls for a heavy realiance on context for meaning to be understood, as you take two or more words, and bring them down to one, making two or more meanings once expressed by two or more words, now expressed by one, with meaning in each case hanging off on context.

Ya compond words are words, phrases are not words.
how about this. let's drop the word tree and call it the thing with leaves on it. that works.

you do away with subtely of meaning to make forth your "pure english" and you think thats wonderful, all the while you have little regard for the important role that foreign words play in filling in gaps of meaning.
You call my words gibberish, on what grounds, that theyre not in common use? Big shit, new words are spoken everyday, and some catch on you know. What is a real word anyway?
Loosenout and deedway are ridiculous. On what grounds, your taste?
Your judment of my words is feeling-grounded, and based on nothing logical.

I am surprised you are against anglish, Ængelfolc, for someone who claims to uphold english purity. What Ængelfolc shall we do with words like biology or mathematics or industry or agriculture? Some of these academic words OE did have words for, and that is great, let's bring all these words back. astrology had tungolcraft, mathematics rimecraft, philosophy outhwitting. OE i believe had a word for agriculture, tillingcraft or something. But let's say the word cropcraft is brought into english. Would that be a bad thing because it has never existed in english? I dont think so, not at all. All germanic coinages add to the richness of the germanic side of english.
what shall we do though for words that english has never had an equivalent for. I think you would underwreathe coining new words in these cases. Science could be ikindwitting, from OE ikind which meant nature. Economy could be worthdom or something.
but to be against coinages is silly. Words are coined all the time by the academie francaise for byspell, and by many other language overseeing groups.

@ferthfrith: "afterfollows (consequences. sorry, outcome doesnt work here)"

Your sad "findings" (O.E. fandung, tǣcning, bīsnung "proof") are left badly wanting and without any weigtht or bearing.

Hmmm. Well, 'consequence' means "the effect, result, or outcome of something occurring earlier". Odd. 'Outcome' is in the meaning of the word itself. It WILL work here... it's okay.

1) The word is the present participle of L. consequī, meaning "to follow closely". So, one could also say in the stead of the Latin: "it follows that" (Yikes! A phrase!), "aftermath", "end", "fallout", "outgrowth", "aftershock", to name a few. Such already is the "richness" of English.

2) "Tree" (O.E. trēo(w), PGmc *trewan) is a Germanic English word that has been in the tongue since before 900 AD. There are many lone words, but the way of a Germanic tongue is to make compounds and phrases to talk about new things. Phrases are made of words, and are great to use in English.You have missed your mark here. Moot.

3) "you have little regard for the important role that foreign words play in filling in gaps of meaning": Either you haven't read my other posts, or you don't understand them. It is some-what true that I do not regard foreign words that fill in "gaps", since many times an English words exists that could be used instead, but that's all. In science, academia, fashion, technology, asf, it is more than a few gaps. Whole new English words would have to be made.

Now, I don't take kindly to folks putting words in my mouth or thoughts in my head. I do not think or believe any of what you put forth in your rant. I am not against "Anglish", or against making new English words or "coinages", and I am not for, nor do I uphold, English "purity" (that is folly).

As for "subtlety", do you really think that a glut of words is subtle? Shades of meaning are not merely marked with lots of lone words, but how the words are crafted and come together to shape meaning in an other than straight-forward way. Lots of words are not needed for a tongue to be rich. That is not true. Is the poem Beowulf a lesser poem because it was written at a time when English had less that 500,000 words? What about Cædmon's Hymn written in the late six-hundreds?

New words are outgrowths of a living tongue. How do you think "ginormous", "smackdown", "microgreen", and "Bollywood" made it into the Merriam-Webster wordbook in 2007? Pop Culture. That usually where new words come from. The folks make up the words as needed. See if you can make "loosenout" trendy, where folks will say it to mean "solution".

Now, "Cropcraft", maybe, since "craft" is still in common today, but that could easily mean "farming", too. And, we have "crop-sharing". "Deedway" (which is a family surname, in case you didn't know) for method will likely never fly, since you have to convince all of the academics and scientists. Those groups love Latin/Greek words. They were trained to believe they are higher register (smarter) words. Further, I think that we should look to other latter-day Germanic tongues to put in stead of Latin/French/Greek ones. I don't see why we shouldn't borrow from sister tongues. See, no feelings, all well thought out.

"as you take two or more words, and bring them down to one, making two or more meanings once expressed by two or more words, now expressed by one" Yes, it is a hallmark of English and Germanic tongues in general. Look up "kennings". The kenning is a great weapon in the English arsenal.

I think bringing back the words "lost" in Old English and highlighting the English words in latter-day English are needed to strengthen the heart of the tongue. After that, then I think new words can be made better, more easily, and taken in quicker by the folks---they have to be "de-Frenchified".

"Agriculture", by the way, was written Eorþtilung (Earth tilling).

Thanks again for your thoughts. Cheers!

For Fun:

SCIENCE >> O.E. woruldwīsdōm >> worldwisdom, worldknowledge

NATURE (order of things) >> gecynd(e) >> Mid. Eng. kind(e) >> Mod, Eng. kind ("The Book of Genesis" was called "Gecyndboc" by Ælfric). Shift back to the original meaning would have to happen for this to work.

ECONOMY (Gk. oikonomíā ----> oîko(s) 'house' + nomia 'law'---> "household management") >> maybe 'worthship' (O.E. weorþsciepe, cf. German Wirtschaft, which is just a calque of Gk.οἰκονόμος) or 'marketworthship' pr 'worthshipthrift' or 'landworththrift' (country economy). Most every Germanic tongue today uses the Greek.

INDUSTRY >> Mod. Eng. Business (O.E. bisiġnes(s), "movie business"), Trade (O.E. tredan, "plumbing trade"), Craft (O.E. cræft, cf. German 'Kraft')

BIOLOGY (bíos 'life' + lógos, logia 'study of') >> funny thing about this word is that it was made up around 1800 by German scientist Karl Friedrich Burdach. English should look to Icelandic for a new word, since all of the other Germanic tongues use the Greek, likely since a German-speaker coined the word. See what I mean about scientists and their love of Latin/Greek words?

Icelandic Líffræði (life science) is a great model for English: Líf (O.E. līf "life, body") + fræði (O.E. frōd "wise, wisdom, understanding") >> so, maybe 'lifelearning', 'lifeunderstanding', 'lifewisdom', lifeknowledge' or something like it.

biology >> līffrōd

Now this might work to get the academics and scientists to take an earnest look at switching over!

Correction about BIOLOGY:

Burdach coined the term "morphology" in 1800. The first to use the word biology, however, was by another German scientist, Michael Christoph Hanov (1695-1773), in his work Philosophiae naturalis sive physicae dogmaticae: Geologia, biologia, phytologia generalis et dendrologia (1766). Hanov did this because he believed that "souled beings" had to be split from "un-souled beings". Therefore, a new word was needed.

Interestingly, 'biologi(a)' was used in 17th century Germany and earlier to mean 'biography'.

@jayles: "...words are generally descriptive of observed behavior, rather than an emotional reaction...is it not the same in your business life?"

Well, couldn't you say any of the above, if you framed it up by saying, "Your behavior is..." or "I find you behavior..."?

"I find your behavior churlish." "Your behavior is pigheaded."

Yes, sometimes in the business world PC words have to be used. I try to get away with speaking English whenever I can, though. Sometimes it leads to edgy stuff, but at least its honest and straight-forward. I have found most folks have a high regard for that.

Ængelfolc: yes and no. I think people hear and remember the word, not exactly how it was used. The other thing is, as you probably realise, if it comes to defending what was said to one's boss, it's better if not to have said "pigheaded" at all. As it is I was able to use "rude, sullen, disrespctful, and uncooperative" this morning, (which I had carefully pre-taught last week).
In teaching English for business and academic purposes, there isn't time to teach everything, so we concentrate on the most useful words, and exclude words that could create trouble; so I wouldn't teach "pigheaded"; say this to your boss or a policeman and you are in trouble.
If I were teaching for journalism, creative writing, policing, or terrorism, then of course "pig", "pighead" and "pigheaded" would right there on my list, along with how to say good morning in Arabic.
I always remember being taught the "f***" word in Slovakia, just they forgot to tell me how rude it was. (There is a roman road along the A5 in England called "Foss Way")

I notice "oversee" is making a comeback in job advertisements, (in lieu of "supervise")
and we already have the Senate Oversight committee. However I haven't seen "overseer" yet (for supervisor); to me "overseer" brings up pictures of plantation slavery, so I guess that's why

Re: economy; if we ditch "economy" then we also must ditch "economical", "ecological" , "eco-friendly" "eco-niche" "eco-farming" etc. Likewise if we ditch "place" we must also ditch "replace", "emplacement" "placement", "outplacement" ..
same with all the "ology" words.. (except they're all academic)

You mock my coining of new words and then switch over to being seemingly more open to them, all to show yourself as logical.
By purity, I mean words that ring well to the english ear. words that are made up of known parts, and that are therefore felt as being owned by the english speaker, rather than given to them by a wordbook.
having more words to express shades of meaning is indeed a token of a strong language. it means not having to rely on context, it adds richness.

500 000 words at the time of beowulf. that's a huge number, and without all the scientific jargon that nobody understands, nowtime english would likely have a lot less words than that.
Deedway will never fly because of academics? Well then you might as well drop all that your doing cause academics will be against it.
aftermath", "end", "fallout", "outgrowth", "aftershock."'
Let's test these out in a sentence: Jim, do your homework or youll suffer the consequences.
suffer the aftermath. Like what's left after a disaster?
suffer the ends. No explanation needed.
suffer the fallouts. well this could work though not fully, since it means something more along the lines of bad side-effect rather than consequence.
suffer the outgrowths. like a growth on the body right? this one doesn't ring well, though admittedly it's not that bad, though it does express something more like something that is made by something, instead of something that follows from actions or events.
suffer the aftershock. like an earthquake right? this one is too figurative and intense for my liking.

and here's the thing with outcome. it's neutral, whereas consequence is not. consequence is mostly used to describe an undesirable result. outcome even has a slight differenece in meaning to the word result. Result expresses a direct following from something, like this workout routine has given me great reults. But outcome expresses a kind of collection of actions or events that folow out in something happening. it would be really stupid to say this workout routine has given me really great outcomes. So you see, our many-worded language does give us the ability to express shades of meaning, and you can't simply do away with foreign words without compromising that.
Also, i am well aware that tree is native english, i was being sarcastic if you didnt notice.
there you go again with the word industry, thinking we can drop it and be fine filling it in with either business, trade, or craft. It doesn't work. Industry brings to mind the mass production of things. business is an entity involved in money-making, and means everything that entity does while going about doing this. trade is along the lines of skilled work. Craft too is along the lines of skilled work, but expresses finer work still. the word industry serves a good purpose and i wouldnt like to see it go without a coinage being put in its stead. How about worthship form the german wirtshaft, though I dont really like this since worthsip meant something like honour or respect, and it makes more sense using it in that way. Hmm I don't know maybe makingdom or felemaking (fele from OE for many, akin to german viel) or michelmaking.

also, as for the greek ology, why not just use lore. this is how it was used in OE, and it stems form the root learn, so its quite logical. biology would then be lifelore.

indeed new words are made everyday by native speakers. this is how new words should arise, i believe, instead of being imposed by an "academie". they should be welcomed and praised.

icelandic is truly a language to look up to. I envy those who speak, they have such a powerful language, so fully owned, so fully understood by its speakers.