“Anglish”

The best way to influence the future of realworld english is via what children are taught at school. For centuries english children were taught French and/or Latin as their first foreign language, so romance borrowings come naturally. If children were taught Dutch, they would more easily use germanic words, and borrowings, and English would become more germanic over the succeeding generations.
However, in the real world Chinese, Arabic and Hindi might prove more useful.

very true jayles, youre spot on. school is likely the single most weighty influence on how english speakers get their language. Come to think of it, i myself did learn most of my french/latin/greek wordstock at school, often from a wordbook. How sad, we learn our words as kids by looking them up in a wordbook. But for sure, if we switched over to teaching a germanic langauge at school, this would strengthen germanic english. Actually, i first became interseted in anglish, and in the potential of germanic english, after learning german.

@ferthfrith:

You do not understand, nor seem to want to. Listening begets understand begets wisdom.

* "You mock my coining of new words and then switch over..." NO, you misunderstand again. Read...think...read again...think...understand. I ask again, read my other posts on this blog. I mock wanton word-making and wanton borrowing. They are the same evil, just on froward side of the same coin. I cannot be any more forth coming and straight forward: over-borrowing >> bad; making words for the sake of a one-to-one swap >> bad; loanwords taken when it is from mixing of folks and folkways >> good; making new English words when one is needed for a thought or thing, if one isn't already in the wordbook >> good.

* "500 000 words at the time of beowulf." No, I wrote ,"less than 500,000 words". The point being that great written works were done without so many words.

* "you might as well drop all that your doing cause academics will be against it.
aftermath", "end", "fallout", "outgrowth", "aftershock."'" Uh, you must be joking! Right?! These words are already used by academics and scientist all the time. They are real words that are in all English wordbooks, except maybe an "Anglish" one. They are already accepted. English speakers have been trained to take "consequence" as less neutral. Your "byspells" are one-sided and only prove the weakness in your position.

* "there you go again with the word industry, thinking we can drop it..." We can, and often do. Business, trade, and craft are used interchangeably with "industry all the time. So, industry is rather "superfluous", like most borrowed words. For all of your "byspells", I ask that you look at the meanings written in the English wordbooks. Just because one "feels" or "takes" a meaning in a certain way, doesn't mean it is right. The wordbook is the guide one should use when trying to show the truth of his findings.

You are right about O.E. weorþsciepe, worðscip, wurðscip, weorðscipe (c.1300 AD). I did not even think about it being the English word "worship". Too hard to change that meaning around.

I am all for bringing back "lore" (German lehr) or frōd and broadening their use.

@jayles, @ferthfrith:

I am with you guys! We have talked about academia and the church being roots of the downfall or lessening of the English tongue. English is much more akin to Danish, Frisian, Dutch, and German at it's heart. Let's make German a must to learn for all learners (since it is the second most spoken tongue in the EU) and maybe Mandarin.

To be forthright, German (really Oberfränkisch ;-p) is my first tongue, so I tend to lean a little more toward anything German. But, I am for any of the Germanic tongues, since I am a striving Germanist.

Funny thing about a lot of these "scientific words": most of them seem to be coined by German scientists! ;-( Take "ecology"

wow Ængelfolc maybe you should stick to german. let the native english speaker's deal with english.
English speakers have been trained to take consequence as less neutral? what is that suppost to mean. we take it as less neutral cause thats how its fucking used in everyday speech, we werent trained.
You wish to get rid of foreign words and insteaden them with with native words. well, you said that academics oppose this, and i was pointing out that if that is your thinking then what you are doing should be thought of as useless by you. yes native words are of course used by academics but you wish to do away with foreign words which you say academics are against doing.
You mock wanton word-making". well i guess this is where we disagree Ængelfolc. What to me is a sound coinage is wanton to you.
I stand by my opinion that the variety of words in english brings about a richness of expression, and that to do away with foreign words while having their specific meanings be absorbed by native words which themselves have specific meanings, is to impoverish the english language.
Wow Ængelfolc you really have a hard time grasping one of english's hallmarks: that of using many words to express many shades of meaning. honestly, if you cant see that industry is not the same as business, or trade or craft, then theres no use going on quibbling about this. im not sure what kind of english you speak but it's not the english that's spoken where im from, nor the english that's spoken on tv, nor the english that's read in books asf. we clearly have different understandings of the english language.

@ferthfrith:

Profanity and hateful speech are signs of a weak, feeble mind trying to forcefully express itself. Clearly, this means you. There is no need to be rude on this blog.

You are frustrated since you can't handle the well-grounded rebuttals to your positions. It seems, like I said, you don't acknowledge the truth of what anyone writes, even when it can be backed up by many (old and new) sources, like dictionaries. Opening the ears opens the mind.

Academics like Latin/Greek roots to name scientific things. What you have put forth would fall on to deaf ears (deedway, loosenouts, asf). I never said that the academics would take on any new words that would put forth, only that they do use existing English words.

"Sound coinage"? That means to me that the word made follows English rules, is made from English bits, and sounds "English". It has nothing to do with it being wanton. A well made word or word-string can also be wanton.

"...grasping one of english's hallmarks: that of using many words to express many shades of meaning..." This is a latter-day (over the last 400 years or so) thing, that many English academics have argued actually has weakened English and lessened it's richness. I guess it depends on where one stands. This supposed "hallmark" is not lost on me, but after much study, I do not think so highly of this idea and question it.

"...theres no use going on quibbling about this..." Yes! Let's move on. You are not open to anything but your own thoughts. I come hear to talk about making English better; to openly (with an open mind) talk about ideas with others, not to attack them. Bad form, ferthfrith.

"im not sure what kind of english you speak but it's not the english that's spoken where im from, nor the english that's spoken on tv, nor the english that's read in books asf. we clearly have different understandings of the english language." I speak English, like you or anyone else. The proof is in my writings. We do understand English differently, and even native speakers understand English differently, too. Education, zum Beispiel, is a big factor. You are making a value-judgement about me that is unfounded and ignorant.

INDUSTRY: any general business activity; commercial enterprise; organized economic activity concerned with manufacture

BUSINESS: a person, partnership, or corporation engaged in commerce, manufacturing, or a service; profit-seeking enterprise or concern; an industrial, commercial, or professional operation; commercial activity; dealings; (adj.) of, noting, or pertaining to business, its organization, or its procedures; a trade or profession.

TRADE: of or pertaining to trade or commerce; the people and practices of an industry, craft, or business; amount of custom or commercial dealings; business; a specified market or business: the tailoring trade; an occupation in commerce, as opposed to a profession; to buy and sell (commercial merchandise); to deal or do business (with); Business or commerce; economic activity.

CRAFT: an art, trade, or occupation requiring special skill; the members of such a trade, regarded collectively

SOURCES:
Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 10th Edition
2009 © William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins
Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009

The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition
Copyright © 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2011

So, it would seem business can mean 'industry', 'trade' maybe in a less formal setting. Certainly, 'trade' and 'craft' can shift back and forth, and can also mean 'business'. I am not sure where I "don't get it". Indeed, there are special uses for these words, but if another of the many meaning were to be highlighted... I didn't write the wordbooks, I only go by them.

Ferfrith, your ideas would seem to fit in well over at the "Anglish Moot". I am sure they'd love your input, since you seem to be of similar mind and purpose.

Again, no hard feelings! Mach's gut...

profanity? hah that's funny. it's my thing see, i like it, so sorry if i offended you. I swear not cause im angry but cause its part of my everyday speech. You cant fucking interpret peoples emotions on a blog.80% of human expression is by facial expression and voice pitch. You are making a value-judgement about ME that is unfounded and ignorant.
your sarcasm could be taken to be a weak, feeble mind trying to forecefully express itself.
Im not even gonna go in to the conclusion you drew from those definitons you gave. the defintions prove me being right, they are in essence identical to my defintions. it should be clear enough that trade, craft, and business are indeed words with different meanings, and cannot be freely interchanged.
Can't handle your well-grounded rebuttals? wow you really are high up in the air Ængelfolc. you havent proven anything to me. i could go on talking this topic through, but i hate the inefficiency of blog-conversation. I have better things to do, like actually going out and talking to people, and spreading anglish, instead of sitting in front of my computer blabbering on about the sorry state of english
hah and you cite your dictionary sources. 3 dictionaries, 3, jesus. wow you really are something Ængelfolc, thourough indeed, you should be proud. i hate to judge without having ever met you, but you seem to take this blog way too seriously, as if it feeds your sense of importance, your ego or something.
Zum beispiel, mach's gut? once again Ængelfolc, stick to german, you seem to know and like it more than you do english.

@ferthfrith:

“Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.” -Plato

My words, just as your words, speak for themselves. Your reply is exactly what I expected. It makes what I have written ring even more true. Thank you!

All we have are the words on this blog by which to judge, nothing else. So, what one writes is all that can be known. That's all anyone here can do. Trying to go beyond that is not a right or becoming way to be.

I hope now we all can get back to talking about English on this blog in a fruitful, worthwhile way.

Cheers to all!

ferthfrith & Ængelfolc: You two have much common ground in common. Simply different solutions.
There are also often differences in the AngloSaxon and a more Teutonic approach to business: for example AngloSaxons often go to business meetings expecting an open discussion, only to find the other side meticulously prepared and equipped with a set-in-stone proposal. The approaches can be very different.
Finally as the Hungarian King (forgotten his name) said before the first battle of Mohacs: "know thy enemy"
Of course he lost.

@ jayles: Als "Teutone", bin ich genau derselben Meinung. Wenn auch die Loesungsansaetzen der Angelsachsen und der Teutonen ganz anders sind, gibt es noch einen guten Weg und einen schlechten Weg. Leider ist dies, wo die Meinungsverschiedenheit liegt.

Your words are wise and ring true, jayles. Good show, and thank you!

@jayles:

Wasn't it Luis II of Hungary? I thought "know thy enemy" was from Sun Tzu (The Art of War)?

Here are some old science words that were coined by Germanic speakers. They all spoke Germanic tongues, yet they chose to take from Latin and Greek to make these new words.

neuron, chromosome >> Heinrich Wilhelm Gottfried von Waldeyer-Hartz (German)

genetics >> William Bateson (English)

gene >> Wilhelm Johannsen (Danish)

biceps brachii >> Bernhard Weiss (German)

iris >> Jacob Winslow (Danish)

dinosaur >> Sir Richard Owen (English)

cell >> Robert Hooke (English)

histology >> August Meyer (German)

Unbelievable, right? Sadly, French/Latin/Greek were/are the tongues of woruldwīsdōm (science).

"Wasn't it Luis II of Hungary? I thought "know thy enemy" was from Sun Tzu (The Art of War)?" Genau; es war als Witz gemeint.

Yes discussion and negotiation styles do vary quite a lot around the world. It is wise to know what to expect; truly great people can switch styles to suit.
.

@jayles: "Genau; es war als Witz gemeint." Sorry, verstand den Witz sofort nicht. Obwohl haben Sie recht. Ich verhandle einen grossen Betrag des Auslandsgeschaefts, und verstehe ganz genau. Trotzdem lauert Engstirnigkeit immer irgendwo im Hintergrund.

Ængelfolc: Ich bin selbst engstirnig, d.h. ich will dass die Auslaender sich genau wie echten Englaender benehmen; mir ist das viel bequemer, hoeflicher. Warum die Koreaner das nicht machen koennen? - das ist mir voellig schleierhaft

Ængelfol: Jedoch wenn man in Korea aufgewachsen sei, und an der koreanische Bildungssystem geleidet hat, denkt man nur auf koreanischer Weise. Das koreanische Bildungssystem konzentrierte sich wohl auf Routine/Auswendiglernen, aktiv entmutigt das fuer sich selbst Denken; in der Tat waren bis in den letzen Jahren alle Tests als „multichoice“ formiert.. Das Ergebnis ist, wenn man eine koreanische nach ihrer Meinung fragt, koennen die Antwort leise vorkommen, "Ich weiß absolut nicht; niemand hat mich nach meiner Meinung je bisher gefragt". Daher ist es eine wirklich große Angabe fuer sie, in eine voellig andere "europaeische" Gesellschaft zu integrieren.
Auf der selben Weise ist es oft eine wirklich große Angabe fuer jemand mit einem ganz anderen Verhandlungsstil zu operieren.

ferthfrith: "Thourough indeed, you should be proud.... but you seem to take this way too seriously, as if it feeds your sense of importance, your ego or something."

This is a common anglosaxon response to the teutonic work ethic. I find it maddening too sometimes. If you ever live in Germany you would have to see the upside: they make wonderful cars, and everything works; everything is tidy and orderly; but don't make jokes or talk about your private life while doing business; it is separate.
We all have our foibles!

"mit einem ganz anderen Verhandlungsstil " better: bei einem ganz.......

@jayles: Your German is very good! You are also right about the Anglo-Saxon (which includes America) vs. the Teutonic ways of doing things. LOL! It is so true, and so funny at the same time. Did you live in Germany before?

Von meiner Sichtweise muessen die Einwanderer sich zur Kultur der Wahlheimat anpassen. Multikulti ist gescheitert. Einzelne Kultur, einzelne Richtung; viele Kulturen, viele Richtungen (im Wettstreit) >> Verfall der Hauptkultur des Landes.

Ængelfolc: "Here are some old science words that were coined by Germanic speakers. They all spoke Germanic tongues, yet they chose to take from Latin and Greek to make these new words.

neuron, chromosome >> Heinrich Wilhelm Gottfried von Waldeyer-Hartz (German)

genetics >> William Bateson (English)

gene >> Wilhelm Johannsen (Danish)

biceps brachii >> Bernhard Weiss (German)

iris >> Jacob Winslow (Danish)

dinosaur >> Sir Richard Owen (English)

cell >> Robert Hooke (English)

histology >> August Meyer (German)

Unbelievable, right? Sadly, French/Latin/Greek were/are the tongues of woruldwīsdōm (science)"

Seems Jacob Winslow also even chose some French to go betwixt his gospelsome first name and his (utterlilike English looking) Danish last name. Though seeing has Winslow ended up in France, maybe it was an early example of the French bullying outsiders to frenchify their names.

Would it be wrong to say England have been the longest and biggest Romance fetishers - Nan Bullen to Anne Boleyn, Battenberg to Mountbatten rather than Battenburgh, Battenbury or Battenborough etc. Anyway, don't understand why this fashionista didn't go wholehog, drop the 'Winslow' bit, leaving: Jacques-Bénigne 'Guineslou'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_B._Winslow

......

/Jacob B. Winsløw, also known as Jacques-Bénigne Winslow, Danish-born anatomist (1669, Odense – 1760, Paris)/

/Winsløw greatly admired Bishop Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet, the famous preacher, and, as a consequence, he slightly changed his Danish Christian names to those of Bossuet/

ÆngelfolcL "Did you live in Germany before?" quite a while ago now
www.targettraining.eu

@Stanmund: "Would it be wrong to say England have been the longest and biggest Romance fetishers..." LOL! No, I don't think that wrong. For a while, when French culture was "in", folks tried to Frenchfy themselves on purpose, especially in Britain.

WINSLOW (OE wine(s) "friend's" + OE hlǣw, hlāw "hill, hillock, barrow"; cf. Gothic *hlaiw "grave, tomb, cave", Old Saxon hléo, OHG hlaeo, hlēo, lēo, MHG lē); English name is from a place in Buckinghamshire; OE hlǣw is still found in modern place-names (esp. Scotland) like "Berwick law", "Houndslow", "Marlow", "Eastlow", "Westlow", and "Ludlow" >> Wineshlauu (849 AD, The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle), Winneshlaw, Winneslaw, Winneslow > (here begin the Anglo-Norman corruptions of the English original) Wynselawe, Wynselowe, Wynslowe >> Windslow, Winslow.

***HOWEVER***

In the case of Jacob Benignus Winsløw (baptised as Jacob Christian Winsløw), the name Winsløw was taken from the city of Vinslöv in Skåne (today in Sweden, but back then was part of Denmark), where his father was born.

So, vin(s) + löf (löf, löv, løv, lef, lev) >> Vinslöv >> Winslof >> Winsløw >> Winslow

So what exactly is the origin of "Hounslow" which is on the Picadilly line to Heathrow airport near london? Nothing to do with the hounds slowing down then? It was a coachstop for stagecoaches going west along what used to be the A30....

@jayles: Houn(d)slow >> O.E. hundes + O.E. hlāw (hound's burial)

So what about "install" which prima facie has latin roots, but thence goes back to the same gemanic roots as "forestall"? Of course "installation" is also an issue.

@jayles:

Install (-ation, ment)

Someone translate this into Anglish, please....

This is from the US Air Force website --> http://airforce.com/careers/detail/airborne-cryptologic/

Airborne Cryptologic Linguist

Career Description

Persian Farsi, Chinese, Russian, Pashtu, Japanese, and Korean are just some of the languages you can learn as an Airborne Cryptologic specialist. Why do you need to know a different language? Because your primary job will be to receive, record, translate, evaluate, and report on foreign communications and intelligence. Many of the skills and equipment you'll use are classified, and since you'll be part of an aircrew, you could find yourself in any part of the world doing your job.

Career Tasks

Operate airborne signals intelligence systems and mission equipment
Use radio receivers, recording and related equipment to translate, evaluate, and report on communications
Perform and assist in mission planning and developing air-tasking orders
Receive, transmit and relay encoded and decoded messages
Record special interest mission information and maintain the status of mission aircraft, targets and air-tasking order information
Perform aircrew duties, including emergency equipment usage, and preflight/postflight inspections
Maintain technical aids, logs, and records

Relevant Interests & Skills

Aircraft
Electronics
Computer Science
Foreign Languages

Training

After eight-and-a-half weeks of Basic Military Training, every Airman goes to technical training to learn their career. Here's the basic information about Airborne Cryptologic technical training:

School locations: Lackland AFB [TX], Fairchild AFB [WA], Goodfellow AFB [TX], Monterey [CA]

Length of course: varies

College degree earned: Communications Applications Technology

College credits earned: varies

I notice that they are not seeking anyone fluent in Anglish or offering training therein.

Airborne Cryptologic Linguist >> Loftborne Deorclǣrisc Tungcræfter? ;-)

Airborne Cryptologic Linguist >> Skyborne Deorclǣrisc Tungcræfter??

MAYBE more true:

Airborne Cryptologic Linguist >> Skyborne Fæstdeorcrūnġereċċanlǣrisc Tungcræfter??

My bad...."sky" is not good "Anglish", it's Norse.

Scēogeboren Fæstdeorcrūnġereċċanlǣrisc Tungcræfter

Even better? Scēogeboren Scyldwrītendeorcrūnreċċanungslǣrisc Tungcræfter

Help I need a cryptologist to decode that!

Cryptology >> ( nīwe Eald Ænglisċ) Hȳddonrūnwrītingslǣr?

@jayles: "Help I need a cryptologist to decode that!"

LOL! I was just messing around with some Ænglisc...maybe it will lead to a good "Anglish" word. At first, I muddled the new Ænglisc word a bit. I was trying to get the meaning of "cryptology/cryptography". Cryptology, as you know, is literally, "study of secrets (codes)".

Scēogeboren >> "airborne" >> lit. Scēo (cloud, sky) + geboren (borne)

Hȳddonrūnwrītingslǣrisċ >> "cryptologic" >> Hȳddon (hidden, secret) rūn (code, cipher) wrītings (graphic, writings) lǣrisċ (lore,knowledge, science, "study of...")

Tungcræfter >> "linguist" >> Tung (tongue, language) + cræfter (crafter, "one who is skilled")

So, in today's English (w/o Latin) >> "Skyborne Hidden-rune-writings-lorish Tongue-crafter"

Oh well....I tried. ;-p

"Tonguecrafter" is also a tool attached to a four-cutter which moulds the tongue part of tongue and groove flooring timber.

I also notice they still want Russian as a language. Guess that's why we were taught Russian в школе не ужели??

1) I guess one could use "loft" or "heaven" instead of "sky". SKY, however, still means "the upper air; the upper atmosphere of the earth". I don't see it as a stretch for this sense. Words for "air" tend to be words like wind, brightness, sky in I.E. tongues anyway. AIR is a very old borrowing from around 12-1300, where it began to edge out O.E. lyft, luft (today's loft), so maybe it's okay.

AIRCRAFT, AIRWAY, AIR WAR are all Latin-Germanic compounds. We could have Flightcraft, Flightway, and Flight War instead, right? "Airs and Graces"? Isn't that like "pomp and circumstance"? Who needs that? This sense is from the French from 17th/18th c. I would call it "grandstanding and comeliness" or "flaunting and loveliness" or "showboating and lithesomeness", if asked. Why can't one "freshening or drying cupboard" ('cupboard' is another Latin-Germanic compound)?

2) Things would have to change, and other words made or used to tell about these things (if English were to change, of course).

3) How about "war-runebreaker" or "? ;-)

4) I've never heard of this. Isn't this just a "butcher"? Not only did early Saxons enjoy it, but almost all Germanic folks--- still in Germany today. Also, never heard of the tool you mentioned either.

"I also notice they still want Russian as a language." Well, Russia is in the news again, and not in good way. Russian is in good company with the other tongues mentioned. I never learned Russian; maybe I should start.

This link isn't about English, but I think it fitting here. It also underscores what I mean by "Der Träger der Kultur sei die Sprache".

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110604/ap_on_re_us/us_postcard_the90_year_dictionary_project

@jayles: I cannot speak about Russian, but I do know the Slavic words for beech, larch, and yew trees are borrowed from Germanic.

I do speak Polish (not well, but enough). French sway is easily heard, since Polish has a lot of likeness to French in it's fricatives and nasal vowels. Also, there are a lot of Germanic and French words in Polish. Some German words are: 'chleb'

Something else interesting about the Polish tongue fitting to this blog:

According to Iwo Cyprian Pogonowski, "Unabridged Polish dictionaries presently contain some 200,000 entries; one-third of these are foreign adaptations, while about one-fourth are still close to Old Slavonic words."

Seems Polish suffers from the same thing!

PS lifted the hood on my made-in-Australia car and discovered "OPEL " on the engine and german everywhere. Those damn Anglishers at it again!

Part II Of course this doesn't mean that as Europeans we have to share everything; we can still retain our regional identities and regional culture. Indeed some things like english warm beer, hungarian "langos" (deep fried dough) should definitely not be spread or borrowed at all!

@jayles: "...the entire concept of a "pure" language is misplaced. Yes we don't want to be flooded with unnecessary borrowings, but words like "banana" and "potato" would be sensible."

Yes, I am of the same mind as you. I guess that everyone means something different by "pure", but it is folly none-the-less. Indeed, Anglo-Saxon (before the 7th century) had few Latin loans that it got through trade before they came to Brittania because of where their homeland sat. They were too far out of Rome's reach.

Once the Anglo-Saxon's came over, the Celtic speakers helped to add about 200 Latin words (like street) to the A.S. wordstock (although, only a few Celtic words such as 'whiskey', 'flannel', 'bog', and a few others).

"Language Purity" movements are not uncommon. You mentioned the Hungarians, but also the Danes had an aggressive movement against French in the 18th and 19th centuries. German did, too, against Latin (and it was successful). English has had several movements over the last 700-800 years off and on. I am all for it, if it thoughtfully gets rid of unnecessary foreign influence.

Technical borrowings needn't be foreign. A good 'byspell' is Television. In German today, one can say "die Television". I find that terrible. There is nothing wrong with "das Fernsehen" or "der Fernseher". Icelandic has "sjónvarp". In German, we also say "der Rundfunk" for radio, broadcasting. Icelandic says "útvarp". AUTO is German (can be said auto), but the true word is "der Kraftwagen". Others in German are: cellular/mobile phone "das Handy"; airplance "das Flugzeug"; computer "der Rechner"; photograph "die Aufnahme, das Bild"; electricity "der Strom", asf. So, technology words do not have to necessarily be borrowed.

"...my made-in-Australia car and discovered "OPEL " on the engine..." You must have a HOLDEN (Opel is branded as Vauxhall in England)! Let me add "insult to injury": Opel is subsidiary of General Motors. ;-)

Ængelfolc:

This site concerns itself with English, which is a living language, and a real one. Anglish is imaginary, like Esperanto or Atlantean (or Antlantish?). Have you an issue that is relevant to today?

@dogreed: "This site concerns itself with English..."

While the site www.painintheenglish.com does deal with English, these rolling remarks within this site deal with the question of Anglish and its relevance to English growth and development.

@jayles: "...words like "banana" and "potato" would be sensible."

They are, although many tongues have their own word (albeit usually a regional one): Polish "ziemniak"; German "Erdapfel (which was also used to tell about a 'globe'), Erdbirne, Grundbirne; Dutch "Aardappel"; Icelandic "jarðepli"; Swedish "jordpäron"; Nynorsk/ Bokmål ‬"jordeple" and others.

Think about this: the French word today is "Pomme de terre"; in the 16th c. the French said "Cartoufle" (cf. other German, Ślůnski, Danish, Russian, Icelandic words for "potato").

Banana can be said in many other ways like "Adamsfeige", "Paradeisfeige" (German, sometimes Dutch), "bjúgaldin" (Icelandic-rare), among others.

But, I guess what is easy and common prevails---especially when a word is decided on globally. Also, that is not to say that the origin of the food, thing, or thought should carry its native name. There is something to be said for that. It fits in with what I have said before: "Der Träger der Kultur sei die Sprache".

Cheers!

correction: "Also, that is not to say that the origin of the food, thing, or thought shouldn't carry its native name."

Ængelfolc: Good: and what about the yoga-speak; the names of the poses in yoga; are we to use sanskrit or translate; eg veravadrasana = "warrior" pose ??? "aana" means pose; and we now get "plankasana" as their is no sanskrit for the plank position. (Plank here is not quite the same as the current planking craze).

Ængelfolc: could possibly find an idiomatic way to say in German:
"I always take my brolly with me in case it rains".

What an interesting thread! Ængelfolc you should certainly have your own blog for Ænglisc.

While I do fault academia for encouraging the use of Latin and Greek based words, it's probably not for the reason that many think. Actually, it's pretty simple. I had to write a lot of term papers and research papers that usually had a length requirement of X pages. Well heck, why use often and talk when I could use a longer words like frequently and conversation to push me towards that minimum page limit ... and those 50-cent words sounded more impressive. So one becomes used to do that! And once I gained a reputation for being able to write well using those 50-cent words, then the boss always came to me to either write a proposal or proofread something he had written.

But nowadays, I try to stay clear of Latinates. Strangely, I have no issue with Greek based words. Sometimes I think I was a Greek soldier in a previous life. I even learn a little Greek years ago.

I should mention that I am "conversant" ... meaning not fluent but able to talk if the other person speaks slowly and clearly ... and keeps the words simple in Russian, German, and Spanish. I learned Russian at the Defense Language Institute; learned German while living in Berlin, and Spanish while living in Latin America.

I often help others learn English and have even aided in a few professional translations. One of the things that I point out is that the basic English likes short words and to build other words using them similar to German. Having said that, it's very hard for me to keep away from Latinates and I don't think that one can teach latter-day English without them.

Loan words that I would keep ... A lot actually.

1. Computer ... I don't know who used it first but US companies like IBM and Apple have taken it and exported it to the world in its current use. We own it now! No sense in trying to go back to yank it out and create yet another word. Besides, it has spun off some English words into other languages. You can see ads in Latin America for "el laptop" and "el notebook" ... libre wi-fi!

2. Military terms. I'm a vet and let's face it. The French-based ranks is widespread and engrained ... especially the officer ranks. Even Germany has Leutnant, Major, and General ... as do the Russians. The military is heavily influenced by French military terms and you're not going to change that institution.

3. As I said before, I don't have a problem with Greek derived words, especially scientific words. I know what a hydrogen atom is. While I know that hydro means water and gen is basically "born of" or "created from", I don't associate the hydrogen atom with directly with water except that I know it is part of the compound of water H20. But the German way of saying it Wasserstoff (water stuff) strikes me as almost childlike and bangs one on the head that that is "water" ... yes, I know that hydro means water but doesn't slap me in the face like "water stuff" would.

To calque economy into English would only make sense on the personal (home/house management) but not on a grander scale. And to calque ecology wouldn't make any sense. Just accept them. If you can't find a better word then just use them.

One more thing ... I feel like I should have taken notes along the way. I did go to the Anglish wiki site and looked around. It's not very user friendly for discussion and debating ... and there doesn't seem to be a lot of debating the terms. And I don't know if there is some method of making a decision on what goes and what stays.

I picked the word battle and here what is listed:
Non-attested:
hurly-burly
clash
struggle

*** Hurly-burly? WTF? Clash ... Maybe. Struggle ... Doesn't have the intensity for me of two armies on a battle field.

Attested:
bedlake ... ?
bedew ...?
hild ... OE word that I recognize. I don't know OE well enough to know if this is a good use. But it wouldn't be something instantly recognizable.

One that I didn't see "camp" or maybe "kamp" from OE for battle ... similar to German "Kampf". But a "campfield" (battlefield) could be confused with a campground ... at least spelling it "kampfield" would help there. Maybe "clashfield" or "clashground" would indeed work. Oh well, I like the word battle so I guess I'll keep some form of it tho I could use clash as a verb.

Anwulf: in Hungarian "szamitogep" is use for computer; it means calculating machine.
Not suggesting something similar would work in English; it's too late now anyway.

Spanish has "ordenador" and maybe they use that in Spain but in Latin America I see "computadora" ... and sometimes hear "el computer".

The people that I know from Quebec use computer ... France probably has an official French word for it.

German has "Rechnung" and "Computer" ... Computer is common among my friends.

Since you speak Russian ... компьютер

I'm sure that their are some holdouts around the world! lol

The problem now would be to accurately describe it. (Three words there that need Anglish words ... problem, describe, accurately).

I can do math, write, draw, communicate (written, sound, and sight) with it ... So, what is it? What would you call it if you didn't already have a name for it?

there is an existing term "ready reckoner"; so something based on "reckon" might be feasible (or do-able).

AnWulf, when did you go to the DLI? What branch were you in? What was your DLAB score? I will get to go to the DLI soon!

I would like to talk to you about the DLI so I can get some good advice/tips form someone who was there. I leave for Air Force BMT in on July 4.

Ready Reckoners were tables for financial calculations ... I think that would apply nowadays more to calculators. I know that my old textbooks from my university days has financial tables in the back. I wonder if they still print those tables?

But you did stirr an old memory from my early tech days and sure enough, I found it ... Claude Kagan had a proposal for what he called the "Home Reckoner" or "HR"back about 50 years ago. http://www.retrotechnology.com/dri/thehomereckoner.pdf

I think he got the idea for the name from Jules Vernes story. Who, in turn, probably knew about a device called the Step Reckoner.

The verb reckon has a broader meaning than simply to calculate so if I were trying to peg a word for a computer then "reckoner" would probably be it. Oh well ... What could have been ...

@addyaty ... I went there many years ago for Russian and I was Army. Actually, I DLI at Presido was overcrowded and they were building new barracks so a few classes, mine among them, were sent to a branch campus set up at Lackland, AFB where you're going for Basic and where the Army had its English language school for foreigners. So while I missed out on glamor of Presido, I can't complain because the instruction at Lackland was excellent and I enjoyed being there. As a side note, our graduates performed better at the next phase training, especially on military terminology and listening comprehension.

DLI was one of the few schools that I went in the military that wouldn't keep giving you shot after shot to pass. We had a 50% washout rate. The class was composed of Army and AF personnel. We started with 128 and graduated 64. It was 48 weeks with a 4-week break at the mid-point so we could use our leave time.

All I can tell you is that you if you begin to flounder, get help fast. Go to the instructors and ask for some one-on-one time after class. I imagine nowadays that they're much more high-tech than when I was there. I'm guessing that you can have CDs made to listen to in your room. I don't know what language you have, but we had a few sergeants who were come thru for their second language. I remember one in particular who had been thru DLI for German and was coming thru for Russian ... He didn't make it. If you're taking a language that you're not familiar with already, don't assume that you'll have an easier time just because you already have a second language. It'll be a good time and you'll always remember it ... Good luck!

AnWulf: "Ængelfolc you should certainly have your own blog for Ænglisc."

AnWulf: "Ængelfolc you should certainly have your own blog for Ænglisc."

Vielen Dank für das Lob!

@jayles: "I always take my brolly with me in case it rains".

Well, I take it that you are just looking for an unusual word for "brolly", since you likely know how build the rest of the phrase.

Instead of Schirm or Regenschirm, one could say "das Regendach" or, even funnier, "die Musspritze".

Hope this is what you seek. Cheers!

"campfield" (battlefield) could be confused with a campground"

Why not 'fightfield', 'warfield' (war is actually a Germanic word (Frankish *werra), where 'battle' is straight up Latin from 'battuālia'), or 'kriegfield' (English already uses kriegspiel)?

Ængelfolc: sorry I was actually wondering how you would deal with 'in case'; 'falls' seems to mean the same as 'if'; phrases like "fuer den Fall, dass.." or 'gegen die Moeglichkeit, dass... ' seem to convey the meaning but I have never seen or heard them used.
Of course one could say in German 'I take my brolly with me whether it is raining or not"
but I was wondering if there really is an idiomatic equivalent of 'in case".
Perhaps it is like 'whereas", which is okay in English, but "wohindagegen" decided uncommon in German; comments appreciated

Here are my thoughts about the choices you offered:

1. Fightfield/fightground ... maybe ... Even tho fight can be used to describe anything from individuals to countries, it doesn't have the same nuance when it comes to the area covered. It doesn't seem to rise to the level of battlefield in the scope of size. Units fight each other as a subset of a battle.

2. Warfield/warground ... again, maybe ... This one has the opposite issue in that its too big. Units fight a battle as part of a war.

3. Kriegfield/kriegground ... Kriegspiel isn't really used that much. I rarely heard outside of Germany or unless someone had just rotated in from a unit stationed in Germany. Kind of like you hear soldiers in Germany use "machts nichts (nix)" but it's not common stateside. Altho, krieg is a known word unlike the OE guth.

They fought a battle ... They fought a fight? Naw ... They fought war? Too big in scope. The fought a krieg? Schlacht? Or from OE ... Hild, Sacu? Sacufield sounds like soccerfield. Hildfield? Shlachtfield? (Make it an English "sh").

Out of all of those, if I had to pick one ... It would be from the last two and probably lean toward shlachtfield/shlachtground or even shlachtfeld. But then that is probably my bias since I know German better than OE.

On a different word, I was trying to a find another word for the verb "to use" ... (mid-13c., from O.Fr. user "use, employ, practice," from V.L. *usare "use," frequentative form of pp. stem of L. uti "to use," in Old L. oeti "use, employ, exercise, perform," of unknown origin. Replaced O.E. brucan.)

The only thing that I could remotely find that wasn't Latin based was "to brook" from OE brucan but the meaning of latter-day "to brook" doesn't include "to use".

Sometimes you just gotta keep what you have! lol

@AnWulf. Thank you! I will find out which language either toward the end of Basic or when I go to Monterey. I scored a 136 which qualifies me for Chinese, Arabic, Japanese, and Korean. I have no interest in any of those, but if I had to pick based on after-military plans, I'd choose Chinese. Korean would be ok because of it's alphabet, but I heard that it is *the* toughest language... and also useless after-military. Out of sheer interest, I hope to get Arabic, that is, if i get stuck with one of those four.

I have read online that I will get to make a wishlist with three languages but, obviously, military needs come first. On my list, I would put German, Russian, and Icelandic. I'd be happy with any Romance, Germanic, or Slavic language.

On the other hand reviving 'wont' as in I was wont to.... might be nice, instead of used to

addyatg: "Korean...*the* toughest language": this depends on your own first language. Tonal languages such as Mandarin, Thai, Vietnamese are often very difficult indeed for people from non-tonal languages. Learning Chinese-style hieroglyphics is also time-consuming indeed. The other factor apparently there is not much literature of any interest in Korean (???), compared to say Mandarin, or Arabic.
On a less serious note, if the Hungarians had won the battle of Lechfeld in 955, and settled in western Europe, subsequently invading England in 1066 and imposing their language on the common folk (instead of the laissez-faire approach of the Normans, it is just possible that people in the US today would all be speaking Magyar........

addyatg: "On my list, I would put ... and Icelandic" I didn't realise that the recent clouds of volcanic ash which stopped flights all over Europe were in fact a terrorist reprisal attack on the IMF.....

Re battle: slaughter is modern form of Schlacht.
Re computer: of course saxons did not have any computers; but they did jot things down on scrolls marketed under the brand name: "eyepad".

@addytag ... When I enlisted, I was able to lock down the language before going to basic. I took the DLAB because the recruiter asked after my ASVAB score came back if I would like to learn Russian. Then the guys downtown, at first, couldn't find an open slot for Russian and asked if I go with Korean. I told the guy that I wanted a shot at being assigned to Germany ... He said, "Well, just because you take Korean doesn't mean that you'll go to Korea." Yea, right ... I said no thanks to Korean and then another guy found the slot in a slightly different MOS and I signed up.

My brother went thru DLI for Mandarin as did a guy I went thru Basic with. He told me that the grammar of Chinese was simple but the tonals and the writing were a real pain. I had a quickie intro to Japanese and it seems pretty complex. I have no experience with Korean and no desire to learn Arabic tho I did learn a little Persian from a Iranian girl. ;)

My guess is that isn't a great demand for airmen with Icelandic skills. I don't think that we need to monitor their military transmissions to any great extent. Probably not much of a demand for German now that the Cold War is over. Still need Russian, Chinese, Arabic, Farsi-Dari-Pashto (for Afghanistan), and a few others.

To be honest, I haven't done anything professionally with Russian since I left the Army. So pick languages that you want to learn for whatever reason. Japanese was hot back in the 80s, Chinese is somewhat in demand now. But I think we'll see them go the way of Japan ... an influence in the market but not dominating it. I disagree with Jayles about Arabic ... There's really no great need to learn it unless you want to work in the Saudi oil fields.

The AF will be a good life. We called the AF "civilians in uniform" because it's much more casual than the Army. At least you won't have to crawl thru the mud! lol

@Jayles ... they're related. Schlacht is battle; Schlachten is slaughter. The verb schlagen is to hit or strike; erschlagen is to slay; schlachten is to slaughter.

As for Lechfeld, if the Hungarians had won would they have settled or just push their raids farther west?

If Hitler had not decided against taking Malta, German would be a much more dominating language in Europe right now! ...

I have been trying to use non-French and non-Latin based words for a few days and it's darn near impossible!

Try - from OF trier
Use - from OF user (from L uti)
Base - OF - Latin
Impossible - OF - Latin

AnWulf: sometimes we can use "seek to" instead of try: she sought to escape...
sometimes "ground" for base: the system is grounded on the data server...
but yes often it's a "no-can-do" situation. Most languages have borrowings so does English, just struggle (or try) to avoid the unneeded ones, although sometimes those latinate words have a very specific and irreplicable meaning, nuance, or neutrality.

I was surprised myself to see that Hungarian raids extended as far west as Spain. but
the point was that language is often a fluke of history. The US could easily be Spanish or French speaking now if the Louisiana purchase had not gone through.

AnWulf:

About "Kriegspiel": The point was that "Krieg" is not foreign to English.

About "try": Anglo-Norman/Old French trier

"We called the AF "civilians in uniform" >> or the "Chair Force" ;-)

@jayles:

"fuer den Fall(e), dass.." is right. Or, one can say "falls" or "im Falle". So, "in case it rains" >> "falls es regnet".

I like "Shlachtfield", but maybe "Slaughtfield"? Maybe "skirmishfield" or "frayfield" (fray

"I have been trying to use non-French and non-Latin based words for a few days and it's darn near impossible!" >> I have been striving (

Thought this article was interesting and appropriate for this blog:

German linguists oppose influx of English words
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/14/german-language-anglicisms-challenge

@addyatg: See the link below...

http://airforcelinguist.com/

I follow the link from the airforcelinguist to the sample DLAB ... @addyatag, I hope your DLAB was tougher than that. That was simple. I thought my DLAB was really strange until I started Russian and then I realized that it was based on a slavic language with multiple, declined endings.

@Ængelfolc, that was an interesting. Maybe someone would point that "market" was imported into English via French from Latin.

I'll go on your word that "try" is old Frank and possibly Germanic ... otherwise it becomes awkward to work around it.

I think I'll just have to accept the word "use" ... It's just too darn ... well ... useful! And I like it much better than the other import ... utilize which comes from the same root! I rarely use "utilize". I always say "use".

Generally, I'm ok with one or two-syllable word imports. It's the three+ syllable imports that I really start me looking for something different. And it has been a challenge at times to find non-French/Latin words to use!

@AnWulf: "I'll go on your word that "try" is old Frank and possibly Germanic ..."

It is seemingly more and more likely that "try" it is from Frankish. Some say that "try" is from Gallo-Roman *triare, but is "of unknown origin". Yet others stop at the Old French word trier (‘separate, sift’) as the root. Still others write that it is from Vulgar Latin *trītāre (p.p. of Latin terere (to rub). When one, however, puts a little elbow grease into the research, one can find the truth of it all. Looking at all of the root meanings, it becomes clear that the root is in all likelihood PGmc *tiranan, *tirōnan (“to tear, separate from..., tear apart”). The Old French trier, whence English "try" meant “to choose, pick out, separate from..., sift, cull”.

In years gone by, academics always believed a French/Normaund word to have a Gaulish-Latin root. Today, those old findings are being found to be untrue in many, many cases. Take the word 'farm'. It was always said to come from Latin firmo, firmus, firmāre, but this is not so.

As it happens, the Romans borrowed Germanic *fermō, *ferhumō, whence firmo, firmus, firmāre. Latin lestagium is from Old English last; L. bannus

AnWulf: Is there r:eally a nuance between despise and hate? Oh quite definitely. I might indeed despise (or look down on) you (as I do all underlings) but I certainly don't hate you! Underlings are neither worthy of hate nor love!!!! ;+)) nothing personal.

AnWulf: After long years learning latin and french at school, like so many grammar schoolboys I find it easier to make up the word "irreplicable" than find a real English word. Hardly surprising, is it? If one wastes the teenage years sitting at a desk learning stuff only befitting a catholic priest, that really is all one is good for, n'est ce pas? Of course such an "education" affects one's English. Far better to learn Welsh or Dutch.

@Ængelfolc, thanks for the link, but I have seen it before. :-)

@AnWulf. Yes, the actual DLAB was a little tougher than that. The rules regarding nouns and adjectives were like Esperanto: all nouns end with A and all adjectives end with O and all plurals end with S... or something like that. The possessive was like the Latin Second Declension Masculine Genitive -i as in dominus/domini and murus/muri. So "Adam's book" becomes "Adami book" or even "book Adami".

The past verbs were like Anglo Saxon with a "ya" prefix. The man ya-wrote book about languages.

After that easy stuff, they showed about five little icons: a donkey head, a man, a dog, a duck, and a purse. Each word had a made-up "foreign word", respectively giving "asa, bosa, gola, flopa, and chicha"

Then they would mix up the parts from each icon like a man with a donkey head. Then they would give us four options to choose from: golasa, asflapa, bosicha, and bosasa.

Well, the only "word" that has elements from both donkey/asa and man/bosa" is "bosasa" so that had to be the right (or, at least, the MOST right) choice.

The test was worth 176 points total but there were NOT 176 questions. So I think when it came to this icon part and the weird part after, some points were 3 or 2 while the rest were worth nothing.

The last part (and really weird part) was the complicated version of the icon part. I honestly could only narrow it down to 2 or 3 out of the 4 or 5 options.

no everything is incorrect

@jayles ... just don't say irregardless! lol

For me the only difference between being despised or being hated is that being despised is perceived as being more polite and I think that is a few hundred years of conditioning.

@Ængelfolc ... It would be only natural that there are a lot of Frankish words in French since the Franks overran them way back when ... just as Spanish has a lot of words of arabic origin and English has a lot words of French origin. I'll take a word of Frankish origin over Latin if possible.

The funny thing is that during the height of the Roman Empire, Greek was still the lingua franca (Frankish tongue). I once asked why was the New Testament written in Greek instead of Latin since the Roman Empire was in charge and that's what I was told. More people spoke Greek. After the fall of the Roman Empire, thanks to the Catholic Church in part, Latin became the "Frankish tongue".

@addyatg ... Let's us know which language you eventually get. I know that you'll have a blast at DLI. Just remember that the coursework comes first. And, to be honest, AF Basic is pretty much a joke in comparison to the Army's or Marine's so relax and remember that it will quickly pass. When I was at Lackland, they weren't even allowed to make the trainee's do pushups as punishment (or extra conditioning as it was known in the Army if anyone asked). Pfft ... I think that they carried a pad of demerit slips and I don't know what happened if you got too many. It'll be good for stories and you'll laugh about it after you get out.

@AnWulf: "English has a lot words of French origin"

The thing is, is that many words that are taken as "French" (Latin/Gaulish) are really "Frankish" (Germanic), and in some cases "Scandinavian" (Old Danish, Norwegian, asf).

"One has to wonder if those nuances are there because there was a real need for it or are the there just because of our perceptions."

It is the way English speakers were taught to understand a single words shades of meaning, as well as, how the words were used by the folks everyday; This is how meanings shift.

I do not think that "latinate words have a very specific and irreplicable meaning, nuance, or neutrality" at all. English speakers were taught (through academics and living amongst French speakers and clergy) that these words had this kind of worth. I guess the truth of it hangs on through which window one looks out from.

My 2 Marks.

Ængelfolc: I actually wrote: "SOMETIMES latinate words.....". Years ago the milk truck delivered fresh milk in glass bottles to our street of an evening. Each evening the driver boomed to his milkboy helpers: TWO HOMOS at # eleven!!!
meaning not homosexuals but homogenized pints of course. In pre-Bastard times the driver would have shouted: TWO MIXED-UPS at # eleven!!! , but all DIY then of course.

On a more serious note: It is perfectly true that there is a snob value in using latinate words. Thus job adverts contain phrases like "able to work autonomously" - and other "buzz" words. So to intermediate students I just explain this as "on your own", which is near enough for that level. However at proficiency level we then ask the question what is the difference? and clearly autonomously is closer to independently, and "on your own" might mean "alone". Now of course one can come up with other substitutes for autonomously, either completely calqued or just madeup or some revival of OE, but they are never going to have exactly the same feeling as the original (Gk), for good or ill. Of course modern English is littered with the debris of borrowings - wan/pale/pallid;
bloke/wight/man/homo/person; etc.; we just need to weed out the unneeded ones.

On a more businesslike take/knell/tip/heeding: it is spotlessly true that there is a snob worthiness in wielding latinate words. Thus work adverts house phrases like "able to work autonomously" - and other "buzz" words. So to middling learners I just untangle this as "on your own", which is near enough for that standing of learning. However at the skilled end the asking raised is what is the unlikeliness between both? and indeedly autonomously is closer to independently, and "on your own" might mean "alone". Now indeed one can come up with other stand-ins for autonomously, either utterly borrowed or just madeup or some backkindling of OE, but they are never going to have wholly the same feeling as the firsthand (Gk), for good or ill. Indeed todays English is strewn with the dregs of borrowings - wan/pale/pallid;
bloke/wight/man/homo/person; etc.; we just need to weed out the unneeded ones.

Pathfinders listen up, shape a ring around the hearth...

a *ring* o' roses

and

*naughts* and crosses

and

Saturn's rings

instead of:

a circle o' roses

and

zeros and crosses

and indeed

Saturn's circles

Pathfinders listen up, shape a ring o hearth(?)

If 'o' = 'around'

then 'osheep' = 'around sheep'

could using 'o-' as a prefixlike thingy be useful for anything?

could a word be wrought for 'sourround' like: 'onknell' (sourround sound) /the hall onknelled allover in whistles and drums/ (?)

onbooms/oblooms = 'around blooms'

"...clearly autonomously is closer to independently, and "on your own" might mean "alone"."

It seems that "on your own" can mean "autonomously" or "alone". Why is it "clearly" closer to independent? The two meanings of the phrase do not take away from the either meaning in context. One could consider "on your own" to mean autonomously and "by yourself" to mean alone, right?

"The new hire must be able to work by himself, without too much oversight."

Yes, cut away the unneeded loans!

Ængelfolc: sorry I was not clear. The job ad meant 'independently', substituting 'on your own' makes the meaning ambiguous; 'without too much oversight' would be clearer.

Stanmund: I liked "stand-ins"; found "unlikeliness" confusing with "improbability";
and "intermediate" and "proficient" are in this context technical terms used around the world and by publishers for specifically defined levels, whereas "middling" and "skilled" sound as if they address the performance of the student. Technical lablels are hard to change. I have an "LNB" on the roof, what it is, does, or stands for, I neither know nor care, just I need one for each satellite. It is just a label.

Stanmund: twenty years ago I had no idea that "job" was countable and "work" was not; (well not usually in English); but every 'middling' English student has to learn this well. The result is that one cannot arbitrarily substitute work for job everywhere without crossing the boundary into nonstandard English. So if one of my students wrote "work advert" they would earn themselves extra homework to discover the difference between countable and uncountable nouns. FYI the commonest mistakes by non-native european speakers are things like "informations"; "equipments"; "advices"; "furnitures"; while of course many speakers from SE asia omit the plurals everywhere....
Can we not keep the word job as is may be Celtic?
Secondly (Fr) "strewn with the dregs" is a mixed metaphor indeed. "bestrewn with the rubble of... conjures up a picture better I think.
But we do love a trier!

And for all you diehard anglishers I confess to explaining the meaning of "annual" by starting with year, explaining the adjective is "yearly" and that annual means the same. This is the stuff which is so insane.