Past perfect with until
I have an issue with the use of the past perfect tense with “until” (and sometimes “before”). Can you please tell me which of these sentences is correct and why?
She hadn’t realized that she was addicted to nicotine until she smoked ten cigarettes a day. (i.e.: Before she smoked that many cigarettes, she didn’t have that knowledge about herself - not realizing/knowing was earlier.)
or
She didn’t realize that she was addicted to nicotine until she had smoked ten cigarettes a day. (i.e.: First she smoked that many cigarettes, and then she realized.)
I would argue for a hybrid: “She didn’t realize … until she smoked 10 cigarettes a day.” The smoking of 10 cigarettes a day is a milestone or a marker in this smoker’s process/evolution. The realization happens suddenly. Once the smoker hit this milestone/marker of smoking 10 cigarettes a day, the realization hit her. The word “until” already signals the sequence of the events, and therefore, it is not necessary to use “had”.
In addition, to me "had" serves two functions: 1. as the past perfect, and/or 2. implying the act (verb) is a lengthy(ier) process.
GrammarTraditionalistButNotPurist Aug-04-2022
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helo
user111655 Oct-27-2022
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I don't think either versuion conveys the meaning well. I would argue for "until she was smoking..."
user111981 May-17-2023
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When using the past perfect tense with "until" or "before," we typically express an action that was completed or occurred before a specific point in the past. Here's how you can construct sentences using the past perfect tense with "until" or "before":
Until:
Subject + had + past participle + until + specific point in the past.
Example: She had studied until midnight before the exam.
In this sentence, the action of studying (past perfect tense: had studied) was completed before the specific point in the past (until midnight).
Before:
Subject + had + past participle + before + specific point in the past.
Example: They had already left before I arrived.
Here, the action of leaving (past perfect tense: had left) occurred before the specific point in the past (before I arrived).
bskyimmigration May-27-2023
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https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/grammar/online-grammar/past-perfect-simple-with-time-expressions#:~:text=We%20can%20use%20past%20simple,then%20the%20party%20could%20start.)
bskyimmigration May-27-2023
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