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Username

erle

Member Since

April 10, 2003

Total number of comments

13

Total number of votes received

4

Bio

Latest Comments

Em dash

  • April 11, 2003, 6:30pm

Guess I'm out of date. My last post stated the "typographers' rules" as I recalled them from the typography book _Words Into Type_. Examination of the web pages of the _New York Times_ and _The Washington Post_ show both using an ultra-long em-dash with what appears to be an en-space at either end. Other newspapers' web pages are using en-dash, with the spaces appearing to be full spaces.

There were/was an apple and an orange.

  • April 11, 2003, 10:46am

If you see "cold wind and an intermittent drizzle" together as representing the weather, a singular verb is called for.

The team were unable to reach agreement on where to go for lunch. (The members of the team as individuals could not agree.)

The team was victorious in the championship game. (The team played as a single entity.)

Multi-disciplinary

  • April 10, 2003, 11:05pm

Use single or double quotation marks consistent with whatever style guide you are following. Owl's second paragraph is not sound advice, nor is her ending punctuation correct, regardless of the style guide being followed. ".'." with two periods separated only by quotation marks can never be correct. (American typography style, bizarre though it may appear.)

Em dash

  • April 10, 2003, 10:54pm

Typographers in the US use no spaces. Hard and fast rules. An en-dash is half an em-dash, and is used as a hyphen.

-

They are clearly different. What you will see occasionally is - used in place of an em-dash.

Off His Rocker

  • April 10, 2003, 10:33pm

From http://www.briggs13.fsnet.co.uk/book/q%20&%20r.htm. Looks as if Purple Dragon might have been on track with the train reference.

"Rocker: If someone is off his rocker, then he is thought to be a little mad or deluded. I can find no documentary evidence for the origin of this saying, and none is forthcoming from the SHU Phrase Discussion site. However, it has been suggested that it came from early days of steam engine development....in particular beam engines....the beam engine rocks back and forth and if it comes off the pivot (rocker) it goes mad, flailing about and smashing up everything about it.
Another possibility - not very convincing to my mind - is that it describes the antics of some having just fallen off a rocking chair!"

Potboiler

  • April 10, 2003, 10:22pm

http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-pot1.htm

Michael Quinion's site is a good one for finding origins of words and phrases. Another good one is Evan Morris's www.word-detective.com.

Went to extremes

  • April 10, 2003, 10:09pm

I tried to find a bit more about the origin of "went to extremes" by googling. When I linked to a page and found the following use of the phrase, I decided it was time to move on to something else.
----------------------------
My Dear Spiritual Advisor,
As you instructed, I turned into an ice maiden every time my dear husband attempted to entice me into sinful relations involving non-Christian penetration. I was sure that my marriage was going to be saved and we would spend eternity blissfully singing together in Jehovah's choir, but I was seriously mistaken. My husband passed away in a freak accident involving a canister style vacuum cleaner and watermelons. Thank Jesus the church authorities have decided, since I am a pillar of the congregation, to keep the scandalous details of my late husband's satanic demise from the general public.

Now that I am back on the market I intend to screen my suitors very carefully and with your loving guidance. As a white woman, would it be wrong for me to date an African American? Roy is very attentive and caring, but I do not know if God approves of racially mixed marriages. We seem to be a perfect couple, but if Jesus disapproves, I will end this romance immediately.

Overcome with Jungle Fever,
The Widow Jackie

Dear Jackie,

The stories about black mens' endowments are all true. (However, Sister Rossetta hopes you have not learned this first hand.) Jesus knows that informed white women would never voluntarily marry white men over black men. For this reason, Jesus has commanded us to separate the races in marriage. If not for his proscription, the entire Caucasian race would eventually dwindle and die.

Earlier generations went to extremes with separate drinking fountains and buses to keep white women blissfully ignorant of the black stallion's lure. In today's racially mixed society, individuals must be stronger. However, the Bible Clearly States that God will not allow any temptation beyond your ability to resist.

Keep the faith, and keep a Bible between you and Roy at all times. 'cause "Once you go Black, you never go Back"

Sister Rossetta

In and of itself

  • April 10, 2003, 9:47pm

It's an expensive book ($35 to $40 US), but _The American Heritage Dictionary of Idioms_ would be a very useful book for those learning English as a second language. Other less expensive books are available, too.

I've been supportive of what Teresa Nielsen Hayde writes, but her example this time wasn't that helpful to me. For the distinction to be made by example, I need to substitute "in and of" for "in" and then be able to see that one version is clearer than the other. I can't do that with her example. If I change it to "The fish the dog brought in and of itself wasn't the problem," I'm pretty much stuck with my original problem with understanding the sentence.

That problem is caused, at least partially, by having "in itself" or "in and of itself" so far removed from "fish." "In and of itself, the fish the dog brought in wasn't the problem." "In itself, the fish the dog brought in wasn't the problem." The sentence just doesn't work the other way. "The fish the dog brought in wasn't the problem" also works, but has a slightly different meaning.

Some difficulty may also stem from being able to say either "dog brought" or "dog brought in." I'd opt for "dog brought in"--not dissimilar to the saying, "Look what the cat dragged in." If I refer to the "fish the dog brought," it almost sounds to me as if the dog bought and then brought a gift to a party's hostess. If I refer to the "fish the dog brought in," there's more a sense of finding the fish and bringing it in, something much more likely for a dog to do.

What WAS the problem? It was either the smell or the fish guts falling on the floor. (Alternatively: It was either the smell or the fish's guts falling on the floor.)

Perturb vs. Disturb

  • April 10, 2003, 9:13pm

American Heritage, Microsoft Encarta, Chambers--all of these dictionaries (most recent additions) define "perturb" and "disturb" similarly. Two define "perturb" as "to disturb greatly." All have as a second definition the sense of agitation or annoyance.

I'm not sure when I would use one and when I would use the other. Maybe I could start with the nouns "perturbation" and "disturbance" to see what verb choice worked better? "The two soccer fans caused a disturbance; their actions disturbed me; I was disturbed by their actions; I was perturbed by their actions." (It's obvious to me after that exercise that I'm only going to use "perturbation" in the sense of a "perturbation to a system.")

After my playing around, I'd tend to use "disturb" to deal with the act and "perturb" to deal with the result of the act. The disturbance resulted in my perturbance--if you will.

Decades

  • April 10, 2003, 8:48pm

Tom (the no email Tom) and PeriodButtons, please note. _The Chicago Manual of Style_, perhaps the most highly respected style guide in the US, uses 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s. Other respected style guides use 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's. Just be consistent. If you use 60s, for example, use Ps and Qs.

Oughts, aughts, noughts, naughts--one or all of these may be selected eventually, but I'll probably be dead by then. As usual, Teresa Nielsen Hayde hits the bullseye. kaibutsu--none of these is a distortion; all are sound and have a common meaning: zero.