“Anglish”

@Stanmund: Do you mean that you are looking for an Anglo-Saxon word to mean "a deserved rebuke or penalty", rather than trying to fix "comeuppance"?

The word deserve had many true English alternatives: earn, gain (from Frankish *waidanjan), etc. "Rebuke" is a recycled Germanic word with a Latin prefix: L. "re-" + "buke"(O.Fr. rebuchier)-- from W.Gmc./ Scandinavian *busk, which is from P.Gmc. *busk-). "Rebuke" literally mean "return strike".

Other native similar words/ phrases you might use: Wrath, Eye for an Eye, Reckoning, Reward, Earned Wyrd (i.e. Fate), Get His/Hers/Yours, Get what's coming to you, you shall rue the day, you'll be sorry, I'll see you on--, or you'll get-- the gallows, asf. There is lots to choose from.

The suffix "-kin" would not work. It is a diminutive (cf. Ger. -chen) or "a kin, kind, race, species, family" (cf. Angelcynn, "Angelkin).

The O.E. prefix "ed-" (from P.Gmc. *ith-) is found in cognate form in the word EDDY (a current of water or air running contrary to the main current. From from O.N. iða "whirlpool").

@jayles: "Old English was SLAUGHTERED" is fantastic hyperbole! Too much is always made of the "Conquest". Had Harold Gōdwines sunu not been trying to fight a two-front invasion, things would have certainly been different. Anyway, it cannot be accurate, for if it were, we'd all be speaking French. Why do I write that?

Well, consider that there was an unbroken, normal transmission of (Old) English from one generation to the next (the ruled folks spoke English, not French), but the new generation also received new Norman-French words and expressions, too. An oft used example is that the expression "before-hand" comes from Norman "avaunt-main". It is interesting to note that almost no French loan words are found in English during the 11th and 12th centuries. Furthermore, late West Saxon and South Saxon were spoken well after the "Conquest", even though, the written word was mainly Latin or Anglo-French.

Old English, like most Germanic languages, had a very strong oral tradition which did not discontinue with the slaying of most of the thanes. As a matter of fact, Anglo-Saxons didn't really begin regularly writing things down until their conversion. Prior to 597 AD, hardly anything was ever written down. It must also be noted that the Norman ruling-class never tried to actively supplant the English language at all.

Now, one could make a great argument the Old English literature died with Wulfstan of York in 1023 A.D., but certainly not as a result of the Norman invasion. The transformation form Old English to Middle English is generally dated to 1100 A.D. (not 1066 AD), and it was not a result of the Norman Invasion. Besides, English was already naturally evolving on its own prior to the Norman invasion due to the influx of Scandinavian (Danish & Norwegian) influence. The Norman interference simply sped up the process and took English into a slightly different direction with respect to vocabulary.

Old English simply suffered the same fate that Latin did: It merely transformed into something else--Middle English--but, it was still regarded as English...not Anglo-French (although, "Anglo-Norman" was used to differentiate itself from continental French because Anglo-Norman was quickly being considered too old-fashioned and dialectical shortly after 1066 AD--possibly due English influence? By the middle of the 12th century, Norman-French had lost its "purity". This is supported by the many accounts of English Knights who sent their kids to France to learn French.), Latin-Saxon, or Frenglish. The fact is that English remained the vernacular during the entire Norman occupation, and even those in the highest classes eventually had English as a mother-tongue.

Yes, to assert the bourgeoisie was "embarrassed" did produce a muddled meaning. The Normans were said to be indifferent to English, which is worse. There is no debate that English was considered uncultivated (i.e. vulgar) and socially inferior. Ænglisc did fall out of favor as the language of the nobility, education, diplomacy, commerce (generally), and education being replaced, of course, by Norman-French. The church is not to be excluded, since Latin and French were exclusively used during this period.

When the evidence is closely scrutinized, it is clear that the Norman Conquest had little direct impact on the English language. The fault lies with the church and the academics. Enter the University of Paris that was established in the 12th century. Later on, the "Renaissance scholars" shoulder the rest of the blame. To put a finer point on it, it was, at one time, mandatory that Oxford scholars learn either Latin or French. Latin was the language of education and piety, and French was the language of "Polite Society".

More Germanic words given back to English through N.French:

garden (from Frankish *gardo, from P.Gmc. *gardaz- )
hale (from Frankish *halon or O.Du. halen)
hurt (from Frankish *hurt)
pocket (from Frank. *pokka, from P.Gmc. *puk-)
rabbit (dim. of Flem./M.Du. 'robbe' + Fr. suffix -it.
wage, gage (from Frankish *wadja-, from P.Gmc. *wadiare)
wait (from Frankish *wahton, from P.Gmc. *waken)
wallop, gallop (from Frankish *wala hlaupan)
warden (from Frankish *warding-)
wicket (from P.Gmc. *wik- through Old Norse)

More later...

One more thing, the Saxon Thegns were not all killed in 1066, nor were they all immediately displaced thereafter. That is untrue. The surviving thegns were gradually deprived of their lands in favor of Normans upon their deaths.

Check out The Anglo-Saxon Thegn, AD 449-1066 (1993) by Mark Harrison for a complete treatment of the Anglo-Saxon Thegn.

@Stanmund: "Toll" is O.E. toll/ toln which is a very early borrowing into Germanic from L.L. tolonium (from Gk. teloneion). Are you sure that you would want to use this word? An English equivalent is "reckoning".

"Lifetoll" seems more akin to "census" in meaning, which could be the very Germanic "Dweller Reckoning".

"Population" (from L. populus "people") means a "multitude of people", not an 'accounting of'. "Folk" or Folk Group/ Folk Throng all work just fine imo.

I think "populated" is rendered best by a word that already exists: "settled". "Settle" (n. & v.) is from O.E. setl (n.)/O.E. setlan (v.), which is from from P.Gmc. *setla-. "Settle" is defined as "to establish in residence; to furnish with inhabitants".

Hence:

* over populated = over-settled (overbefolked)
* under populated = under-settled (underbefolked)
* population centre = Folk middle (Befolking middle); Folk Seat

My 2 cents.

Germanic words dressed in French Guise ("French & Guise both being Germanic words, btw):

vogue (from Old Low Ger. *wogon)
guise (from Frankish *wisa)
French (O.E. frencisc "of the Franks", from Franca (from Frankish *Frank))
aubain (suggested from Frankish *alibanus)
cruet (from Frankish *kruka)
franchise (transitive verb. From Frankish *Frank + Gk. -ize, literally 'to make free')
jangle ("to chatter". from Frank. *jangelon)
ramp (from Frankish *rampon)
toupee (from Frankish *top)
arrange (from a- + Frankish *hring)
scabbard (from Frankish *skar + *berg, literally 'blade protector')
warble (from Frankish *werbilon)
stallion (from Frankish *stal)
hoe (from Frankish *hauwa)
slat (from Frankish *slaitan)

Surprising isn't it? More to come...

populate- befolk, from the german bevolkern
population- befolking, from the germna bevolkerung

Though i don't quite like befolking for population since it brings about no toshedness (distinction) between the deed of befolking and the rime of folk. How about folkrime for population?

And for the hardcore anglishers out there there's the word theedship from the OE þéodscipe, one of whose meanings was population. You could even take theed, meaning people and insteaden that for folk giving betheed (populate) and theedrime (population).

The acominglinesses are endless really.

as for the "able'' arveth, OE brooked "ingly" as an afterwordling to mean the same thing. So wishingly (desirable), unawendingly (unchangeable), unbearingly (unbearable). Though it's not a fullcomely toleeser (solution) to the "able" arveth, since we already use ingly in a toshed way. For bisen, "She looked up at the stars wishingly". The clearly does not mean the same thing as She looked up at the stars wishable. In soothlay, the twoth wordstring makes no mindrightness.

"Your child is fullthroughly unbearingly." That's really quite understandingly.

Ya it looks like the afterwordling "ingly" could work. You can usually tell by imblay (from OE ymb meaning around) (context) whether it's being brooked in the first or twoth way.

Hope you understand the bulk of what i just typed, it's all anglish unless i ovelooked something.

"Hope you understand the bulk of what i just typed, it's all anglish unless i ovelooked something."
Nope, beyond me. Tele van a hocipom belole!

Re: toll as in death toll. I always assumed this was cognate with "Zahl" meaning number in German. And "tell" like "erzaehlen". Am I just plain wrong or merelyl misguided?

afterwordling- prefix (pretty opensightly)
brook-From OE meaning to use
arveth- from OE meaning problem, difficulty (akin to german arbeit)
fullcomely- perfect
In soothlay the twoth wordstring makes no mindrightness- In fact, the second sentence makes no sense.
fullthroughly- completely

No i dont think tell and toll are bekinned in any way. Toll stems from greek meaning tax or something and tell is germanic.

Etymologies for "tell" and "toll":

1. "Tell" (v.): O.E. tellan (to calculate, to account, to consider, to reckon). From P.Gmc.*taljanan, *talzijanan "to mention in order, enumerate, to count". This verb
has the same P.Germanic base (*talo- 1."number, numerical reckoning" 2."speech, language") as "Tale" (O.E. talu). It is from here that German gets "Zahl, zählen, erzählen", Danish "tal, tale", Dutch "taal, tellen", Norwegian "telle", Icelandic "telja", and so forth.

2. "Toll" (n.)-meaning 'tax, fee' (another root): In addition to the Greek, OE tol, toll, toln (cf. O.Sax tolna) can be from P.Germanic *tullō ("what is counted"). This is the same root as German "Zoll", Dutch "tol", Danish "told", Swedish "tull", Icelandic "tollur", asf.

3. "Toll" (v.)- meaning "to sound with single strokes slowly and regularly repeated, as a bell.": From ME tollen "to draw, lure", which is a 13c. variant of O.E. -tyllan, as in betyllan "to lure, decoy," and fortyllan "draw away, seduce".

Ængelfolc: Na, toll!

"Old English was SLAUGHTERED...it cannot be accurate, for if it were, we'd all be speaking French." I think we mostly do, looking at all the french and latin borrowings in your reply. Of course there is a smattering of little english grammar particles to hold it all together, but the bricks are frenchie.
Of course it is all a little overblown. Such is the travail of the agent provocateur.
"it was, at one time, mandatory that Oxford scholars learn either Latin or French": certainly was when I went to school. How else can one obfuscate an issue?

@jayles: Thanks! LOL! Although, the etymology of the German word "toll" is different.

Today, as you know, "toll" means "terrific, awesome, cool, smashing, etc". Originally, "toll" meant "crazy, mad, frenzied, bedlam" (cf. OE "dol" and "dold", modernly "dull" and "dolt"). OE "dol" (Mod.E "dull"). OE "dold" (Mod.E "dolt") and Ger. "toll" are all from P.Gmc. *dulaz . The meaning 'crazy' is still carried in German words like "tollwütig (rabid), liebestoll (lovelorn/love-crazy)".

So, what are you saying exactly? ;-)

Anyway, more about "toll".

It seems that, at least the German word "Zoll", while apparently a cognate, stems from from P.Gmc.*talo- (root also of "tale" and "tell") according to Friedrich Kluge (pg. 409, An etymological dictionary of the German language). Kluge also states that Anglo-Saxon "tolna" and OE "toll" derive from *talo-, too. He wrties, "The Ger. words are...so old, and correspond so closely, that they must be regarded as of genuie Teut. origin."

"Zoll" in German usually refers to "customs duty/ tariff" and also refers to "inch" (i.e. 2.54 cm). "Maut" in German is a Bavarian word refers to a 'parking toll' or 'bridge toll', asf (from Gothic mota through OHG muta--Latin derivation cannot be correct because the German term is recorded earlier.).

jayles: true Ængelfolc's answer was highly latinized, though bear in mind it's dealing with thoughtlays not often spoken about in every-day speech. Anyway, if the english had one this is some of what Ængelfolc might have wrote:

"Old English was SLAUGHTERED" is dwimmerfast overdriving! Too much is always made of the "Overswithing". Had Harold Gōdwines sunu not been costening to fight a two-front infall, things would have iwiss been toshed. Anyway, it cannot be soothfast, for if it were, we'd all be speaking French. Why do I write that?
Well, hidge that there was an unbroken, wonely yondstelling of (Old) English from one strind to the next (the ruled folks spoke English, not French), but the new strind also fanged new Norman-French words and speechlings, too. An oft brooked bisen is that the speechling "before-hand" comes from Norman "avaunt-main". It is betwixtbeing to bemark that almost no French loan words are found in English whilen the 11th and 12th hundredyears. Furthermore, late West Saxon and South Saxon were spoken well after the "Overswithing", even though, the written word was mainly Latin or Anglo-French.
Old English, like most Germanic irords, had a very strong mouthly thew which did not stop with the slaying of most of the thanes. As an andwork of soothlay, Anglo-Saxons didn't really begin wonely writing things down until their forwending. Before 597 AD, hardly anything was ever written down. It must also be bemarked that the Norman ruling-class never costened to deedfastly insteaden the English speakle at all.
Now, one could make a great kneeting the Old English writcraft died with Wulfstan of York in 1023 A.D., but iwiss not as an outfollow of the Norman infall. The forshaping form Old English to Middle English is imeanly dated to 1100 A.D. (not 1066 AD), and it was not an outfollow of the Norman Infall. Besides, English was already ikindly wharving out on its own before to the Norman infall due to the instream of Scandinavian (Danish & Norwegian) inflow. The Norman betwixt-meddling onefoldly sped up the happen-forth and took English into a slightly toshed whitherness with edsight to wordstock.

Truthfully, it aches me through to think of what english might be had it bided on as a clean speakle. It hurts every time i have to use a foreign word so i try my best not to without making things too hard for readers to understand. But really i could easily never again use a latin or greek word if of course i were just speaking and writing for myself.

@jayles: "I think we mostly do, looking at all the french and latin borrowings in your reply."

We "mostly" do not. Your idea that English is now merely a dialect of French/Latin is utterly unfounded. (good job trying to be an 'agent provocateur'! LOL!) Yes, the schools are loaded with borrowed words that are lauded as "intellectual". Yes, the International Community learns pseudo-English. That's why Anglish Moot, and others, do what they do. The amount of French words & influence borrowed into English is, however, way overblown. Leave it to those so-called "educated" to lie (i.e. 'obfuscate') about the truth.

The ways French affected English:

1) Pronunciation
2) Vocabulary
3) Word order of windy, boastful titles like 'Secretary General', 'Attorney General', 'Surgeon General'

Th-th-that's ALL folks!

I loaded up my comment with Latin-French borrowings for the benefit of the reader to ensure complete understanding of my meaning. I don't have to write with the borrowings, if I choose not to. Why? I speak, read, and write English.

"Of course there is a smattering of little english grammar particles to hold it all together, but the bricks are frenchie." Untrue. I would like to know from which well-spring your ideas flow.

"laud", by the way, is from P.Gmc. *leuthan, and is not French or Latin. ;-)

"if the english had won".....yes indeed; but in fact, in reality, they didn't.
The result is that you can write in vaguely Chaucerian English and people will understand you; but if you invent quasi-old-english words, very few indeed will. The choice as to whether you wish to be understood remains of course yours alone. Time and persistence may improve your chances, but considering the eco-threats to the continued existence of our species I do not myself see it as an overwhelming priority, more a bit of harmless fun on a wet arvo. But I wish you well in your endeavour all the same. Suggest you try to avoid speaking Anglish in interviews for the time being though.

Ængelfolc: Thank you for your comments including all those latinate words; if you do not object I may use it in class- so many "academic" words and such a good topic.

jayles: haha, you are likely right, on a big scale anglish might catch on to a certain degree, but OE words that bear no likeness to any words that we use today stand a much smaller chance of catching on. Unless of course writers and bloggers and academics and such somehow are pulled on by anglish and start using it. Our best hope lies in using already-existing english roots and being creative with them, shaping new words that can be more or less readily understood from their parts.

it sucks though because english has been "stolen" by the world and it's as if native speakers hold no sway over the language anymore, english does not belong to english speakers. ya it would be hard to change the masses, globalisation brings about standardisation, and so we're left with english school children learning their language from dictionaries because of its pathetic foreign vocabulary which makes so many of its words ununderstandable from their parts. Truly we english speakers do not own our language, we do not know it, we just use it blindly, these many-syllabled words for abstract concepts, words that are made up of foreign roots we no nothing of, making these words raw symbols for ideas with no logic to them, no metaphor,no image-evokingness.

Boy, maybe it's hopeless getting the masses to change their english. maybe the place of anglish is tribal, meant for a select few with a heart and mind for saxon-english.

And on a side-note yes we are in all likelihood fucked as far as ecological disaster goes, 98% of old growth forests are gone, more than 90% of large fish in the sea are gone, there's dioxin in every mother's breast-milk we are stripping the earth of all her resources, everyday 200 species go extinct... Though fully unbekinned to our speak-about, I really hate industrial civilisation for what it's doing to the earth and to the human being, dehumanizing and alienating him. Makes me want to leave it all, get a tribe together, and go live in the wild, where of course, we would speak anglish :)

wlyan138: looking on the briteside, 95% of scientific papers are published in English, not Chinese..... there are many people struggling to learn English just to get a job too.

@jayles: You are welcome! Which of my ideas would you like to draw from? It is a good thing to talk about. So many "academic" (Gk.) words shouldn't be needed, but sadly, in school (Gk.) they will be. I am not for making new English words as it were. I am for learning about the rich English that has been hidden and/or lost underneath all of the borrowed words.

As I have written many times, some Latin (L.), Greek (early Germanic borrowing from L. Graeci), Dutch, German (L.), and Scandinavian words belong to English since they were borrowed so long ago, put forth a new idea/thing, or may have filled in a gap (like 'Saturday'). Wanton, worthless borrowing is what I am against.

The first Latin words (and some Latin borrowings from Greek) borrowed into West Germanic started about 100 B.C. (food names, Weekday names are loan rewordings, so 'Saturday' (L.) was borrowed). The second Latin borrowing (starting in about 597 AD, Church Latin) came at the time the Anglo-Saxons became Christians. Words like "oil" (O.E. æle, from L. oleum, from Gk. elaion), "butter" (O.E. butere, from L. butyrum; ultimately from Gk. boutyron), cheese (O.E. cyse, from L. caseus), cup (O.E. cuppe, from L.L. cuppa-borrowed throughout Germanic), and so on, are to my mind, good English.

All in all, the Romans (L.) seem to have set up the framework for a way of living that everyone today, more or less, follows. So, it is likely that a little Latin will be left behind everywhere the Romans were, or a little French from the Normans, and that is all right. This is not the same as needlessly borrowing words into English, with the same meanings and ideas, that it already had/has.

It is the third Latin borrowing (beginning in 1066) and the fourth Latin borrowing (beginning in Middle English about 1450) that I think are uncalled for. Your idea about making new "quasi-old-english words" is true, and well taken. Again, why not learn the about the Germanic words that have been gilded in French, the lost Ænglish (before 1066), as well as the English that has been slowly forgotten thanks to academia (Gk.)?

Hope you had your "brellie" (Aussie slang) to withstand the wet "arvo" (Aussie/New Zealand slang)! By the way, this whole thing was written in Germanic English (with befitting borrowings), unless otherwise marked. This shows that there is no need to make up new "quasi-Old English" words ( I did not make any word up), and the Germanic soul of English itself.

French-gilded Germanic word of the day:

remark (L. 're-' + P.Gmc. *marko, through O.H.G. marchon)

missed some:

ultimately (L.L. ultimatus + Gmc. -ly)

Christians (from Church L. christianus, from Eccles. Gk. christianos, from Christos + Gmc. -'s)

quasi (from L. quam)

Sorry!

A few standard words that, in my view, truly belong to English seeing that they were borrowed so long ago (Latin and Germanic folks meeting beginning from 100 B.C.), put forth a new idea/thing, or may have filled in a gap:

1. The sixth day of the Week- Saturday: Germanic folks followed the Roman's framework for setting up the Week. The Germanic folks took out the names of the Roman Gods/ideas, and put in the names of Germanic Gods/ideas. Germanic folks did not have a God for "Saturn", so it was borrowed to fill-in the gap.

* Sunday (Goddess Sunna, sister of Máni, + Day; 'Sun's day')
* Monday (God Máni, brother of Sunna, + Day; 'Moon's day')
* Tuesday (God Tiw/Týr + Day; "Tiw's day.")
* Wednesday (God Woden + Day; 'Woden's Day'
* Thursday (God Thor + Day; 'Thor's Day')
* Friday (Goddess Fríge + Day; 'Feyja's Day')
* Saturday (Roman God Saturn + Day; Saturn's Day)

The Anglo-Saxons had more to do with the Roman's, and that is likely why Saturn was borrowed (cf. Icelandic "laugardagur", Old Norse "Laugardagr"/ sunnunótt, Danish & Bokmål "lørdag", Swedish "lördag", German "Sonnabend"-although "Samstag" (from low Gk. *sambaton", meaning Saturn) is also said).

2. Baptizm (New Holy Idea): Given to Germanic folks by the Christian church. The word is from L. baptizare >> Gk. baptizein >> baptein "to dip, steep, dye, color" >> PIE base *gwabh- "to dip, sink."

3. Church (New Thing): O.E. cirice from W.Germanic *kirika (yet from Gk. kyriake). Germanic folks had few, or likely never had, holy houses of worship the way we have today. This word shows the Greek-to-Germanic headway made by Christian words, by way of the Goths; it was most likely wielded by W.Germanic folks before they became Christians.

4. Kitchen (Food Idea): O.E. cycene, from W.Gmc. *kocina (cf. M.Du. cökene, O.H.G. chuhhina, Ger. Küche, Dan. kjøkken), likely borrowed from V.L. *cocina (L. coquina "kitchen)," from of coquinus "of cooks," from coquus "cook," from coquere "to cook".

5. Priest (New Holy Rank): O.E. preost, shortened from the older Germanic word O.S., O.H.G. prestar, O.Fris. prestere, from V.L. *prester "priest," from L.L. presbyter "presbyter, elder," from Gk. presbyteros.

6. Banana (New Food): This word was borrowed by Spanish or Portuguese from a W. African word, and taken into English.

And, there are so many more! The thing is, not all outside ideas/words are unseemly in English. What else would one call a banana? A "Yellow Bowed Moon Berry"?! How silly.

French-gilded Germanic word of the day:

flank (late O.E. flanc, O.Fr. flanc, from Frankish *hlanca)

My words with "all those latinate words" written only in English and with borrowings that belong:

"Old English was SLAUGHTERED" is far-fetched Balderdash! Too much is always made of the "take-over". Had Harold Gōdwines sunu not been trying to fight a two-way onslaught, things today would indeed have gone another way. Anyway, it cannot be true, for if it were, we'd all be speaking French. Why do I write that?

Well, keep in mind that there was an unbroken, wonted handing-down of (Old) English from one set of offspring to the next (the bridled folks spoke English, not French), but they also picked up new Norman-French words and ways of speaking, too. An oft made likening is that the look of "before-hand" comes from Norman "avaunt-main". It is striking to see that almost no French loan words are found in English between the years 10 and 11 hundred. Furthermore, late West Saxon and South Saxon were spoken well after the Norman take-over, even though, the written word was mainly Latin or Anglo-French.

Old English, like most Germanic tongues, had a very strong way of teaching folklore/ways through the spoken word, which did not end with the slaying of most of the thanes. In truth, Anglo-Saxons didn't begin steadily writing things down until their switch to Christianity. Before 597 AD, hardly anything was ever written down. It must also be said that the Norman blue-bloods never tried to earnestly crowd out the English tongue at all.

Now, one could make a great to-do about the Old English written works dying with Wulfstan of York in 1023 A.D., but indeed not that it was brought about by the Norman onslaught. The switch from Old English to Middle English is given as 1100 A.D. or thereabouts (not 1066 AD), and it was not an outcome of the Norman take-over. Besides, English was already freely broadening itself on its own before the Norman raids, thanks to the inflow and bearing of Scandinavian (Danish & Norwegian) words. The Norman meddling frankly sped up this happening and took English slightly onto another path with its wordstock.

Old English truthfully underwent the same fate that Latin did: It wholly became something else--Middle English--but, it was still seen as English...not Anglo-French (although, "Anglo-Norman" was put forth to mark itself off from French in France, since Anglo-Norman was quickly being thought of as too hoary and folksy shortly after 1066 AD--maybe owing to English? By the middle of the 1100's, Norman-French had lost its "cleanliness". This is upheld by the many tales of English Knights who sent their kids to France to learn French.), Latin-Saxon, or Frenglish. The truth is that English hung on as the folks-tongue for the whole Norman kingship, and even those in the highest standing, in time, had taken English as a mother-tongue.

Yes, to say the working folks of middle standing were "ashamed" did yield a muddled meaning. The Normans were said to be cold toward English, which is worse. There is no bickering about whether or not English was thought of as uncouth (i.e. boorish) and unworthy of the middle and higher ranks. Ænglisc did fall away as the tongue of the high-born, higher learning, Statecraft, and business (more or less) being taken over by, what else, Norman-French. The church is not to be left out, since only Latin and French were spoken at this time.

When the tokens of truth are thoughtfully looked over, it can be understood that the Norman take-over itself had left little to no mark on the English tongue. The guilt lies with the church and the high-brow thinkers. Now, the University of Paris comes into the frame, which was built in the 1100's. Later on, the "Renaissance Thinkers" shoulder the rest of the guilt. To highlight this even more, it was, at one time, needful that Oxford eggheads learned either Latin or French. Latin was the speech of learning and holiness, and French was the speech of "Well-to-do".

I hope everyone can understand!

Very nice Ængelfolc, you show very well that even today's germanicness in english is enough to get the meaning of more or less everthing across with little if an new anglish words being coined. Though my only trouble with doing away with all those foreign words without coming up with new words in their stead is that what you're left with is an english wordstock that is heftily less than it is with all those foreign words. It is for these grounds that though I am fully at one with wielding germanic english whenever you can, I do very much hold dear the idea of shaping new anglish words to keep up the broadness of the english wordstock even without its foreing words.

Ængelfolc: very good and shows just what can be done. There are great linguistic resources within so-called "phrasal verbs" such as "crowed out" as used. My only comment is some words like "unbridled" are now rare outside set collocations - "unbridled enthusiasm" - but good to revive them. We'll award you an 'A' for this piece.
I was hoping you would allow "unruly" instead of "disruptive" as we need a word like this in order to tell students off for bad behavior, and I hate the PC term "inappropriate behavior". Damn must catch a bus now.

Thanks for your thoughts wlyan138 and jayles. They are well taken.

@wlyan138: You are right. New words do need to be made for those that are taken out of the word-stock. I think that, at least at first, English speakers should again learn the words they have forgotten, like "wont" and as jayles wrote, "bridled". These words are still in the tongue waiting to be born again. Indeed, I am for speaking, reading, and writing mainly English, but also, some of the borrowed words rightfully belong. And, yes, my writing does show that English is still Germanic!

@jayles: An 'A' is good. As for "disruptive" or "unruly", methinks I know not what you mean by that. Both are Latin words. Although, I like "unruly" ("rule") much better than either "disruptive" or "inappropriate behavior". Here are a few Germanic words that are good to know for bad children:

* bad
* bawdy (French-gilded Germanic word from Frankish 'bald', which is from P.Gmc.
* balthaz, meaning "bold, swift, daring, fearless")
* hardheaded
* headstrong
* heedless
* loath, loathesome
* mean
* naughty
* on-a-tear
* reckless
* rollicking
* rowdy
* stubborn
* unyielding
* wayward
* wild
* willful
And so on, and so forth. There are a lot of words to talk about bad kids!

One would say "wield" in English when one means "rule; to excercise power and influence effectively; to use a tool or weapon with skill and control".

It is indeed old, but it is there. It has the same root as the Germanic name "Walter, Walther": both from P.Gmc. *wal-t- (to rule). "Walther" (walt + hari, heer) truly means "ruler of the army".

Sadly, Replaced O.E. wealdan (wield) was taken out and "L. rule" (from O.Fr. riule, from V.L. *regula, from L. regula) was put in its stead. I would earnestly think about keeping it in English, since it comes from the PIE base *reg- ("to rule, to lead straight, to put right") like the following Germanic words:

* Gothic 'reiks (a leader), raihts (correct)'
* Old English ' right (correct, froward of left), -rice (kingdom), -ric (king, rich, powerful)
* Old High German 'recht' (right, correct, froward of left)
* Old Swedish 'reht' (mod. Swed. "rätt") meaning 'right'
* Old Norse 'rettr' (mod. Norwegian "rett") meaning 'right'

Other sister words that share the same PIE *reg- and meanings are:

1. Latin regere (to rule), rex (king, leader), rectus (right, correct)
2. Gaulish -rix (king)
3. Old Irish ri (king)
4. Gaelic righ (king)
5. Persian rahst (right, correct)
6. Sanskrit raj (king, leader)

Ya, I think "rule" is cool. I'd keep it.

French-gilded Germanic word of the day: see "bawdy" above.

One more I forgot:

Mod. German 'reich (rich, wealthy, affluent) and 'Reich' (Kingdom, Realm, Empire, regnum-from biology)

Latin Regnum (inheritable power to govern)

There are so many! It is hard to keep track!

BTW: "track" is another French-gilded Germanic word. It is from M.Du. trecken (cf. M.L.G. trecken, O.H.G. trechan).

Ængelfolc: Fine. The upside to "disruptive" is it describes only the behavior and its consequences and is emotionally neutral, whereas "unruly" and the other anglo-saxon words tend to describe someone's personality or attitude. It is sometimes useful to teach it and discuss some examples like mobile phones ringing and so on. "Unruly" is a bit close to disobedient which is not the focus here; we are trying to focus on not breaking the flow of learning for all students present. In short we criticize the behavior not the student. There are times when a "clinical" "blank" latin word is deliberately useful.

this is where a good coinage would come in handy. oversetting "disruptive" into a more english "disbreaksome" yields a nice word in my mind (rupt=break, ive=some) Granted, the "dis" is from french. english did have the "to" fore-wordling (prefix), which would give ''tobreaksome'' though using it would hinder understanding, and I don't mind keeping the already widely used and worksome "dis", and if im right the fore-wordling dis was found in gothic. A word like disbreaksome is one of those anglish coinages that id say would be pretty readily understood from its parts, and a clear enough context.

More French-Gilded Germanic words in English:

1. Choice (from O.Fr. chois (12c., Mod.Fr. choix), from verb choisir "to choose", from Frankish *kiosan, from P.Gmc. base *kaus-; cf. Gothic kausjan "to taste, test"). Related to Eng. "choose", O.E. ceosan, from P.Gmc. *keusanan.

2. Dance (from O.Fr. dancier (12c., Mod.Fr. danser) from Frankish *dansōn)

3. Rob (from O.Fr. rober, "to rob," roub "spoil, plunder", from Frankish *rōbon, from P.Gmc. *raubojanan, from *raub- "to break".

4. Fletcher ("arrow-maker", from O.Fr. flechier, from Frankish *fliugica)

5. Grape (from O.Fr. grape from Frankish *krāppa, from P.Gmc. *krappon "hook". OE equivalent was O.E. winberige "wine berry").

6. Bastard ("illegitimate child", from O.Fr. bastard. From from Franish *bāst- "marriage" (*banstuz (“bond, tie”)) + *-ard "bold, daring, fearless"; pej. ending from Frankish *hardjan)

7. Allot (from O.Fr. aloter (Mod.Fr. allotir) "to divide by lots, to divide into lots", from à "to" + loter "lot". Lot is from P.Gmc. *khlutom. cf. O.E. hlot, O.N. hlutr, Goth. hlauts)

8. Ambush (from O.Fr. embuscher, ""to lay an ambush". From em- + Frankish *busk)

9. Banish (banischen, from banniss-, extended stem of O.Fr. banir, "announce, proclaim; levy; forbid; banish, proclaim an outlaw", from Frankish *bannjan)

0. Braggart (from ON bragr, from ON *braka + *-ard "bold, daring, fearless"; pej. ending from Frankish *hardjan)

1. Cry (from O.Fr. crier, from V.L. *critare, from L. quiritare, ultimately from Frankish *krītan (“to cry, cry out, publish”))

2. Halberd (from M.Fr. hallebarde, from M.H.G. halmbarte "broad-axe with handle," from halm "handle" + barte "hatchet," from P.Gmc. *bardoz "beard.")

3. Dungeon (from O.Fr. donjon, from Frankish *dungjo (“prison, dungeon, underground cellar”), from Proto-Germanic *dungijō, *dungijōn, *dungō (“enclosed space, vault, bower, treasury”)

4. Install ( in- + Frankish *stall (“stall, position, place”), from P.Gmc. *stallaz (“place, position”)). The Latin and Germanic prefix both mean "in, into".

5. Mayhem (from Anglo-Fr. maihem (13c.), from O.Fr. mahaigne "injury", *maidijanan (“to cripple, injure”). Related to the Germanic word "mad".)

6. Race ("people of common descent", from M.Fr. razza "race, breed, lineage", from It. razza, probably from Lombardic *raiza "line of descent". Cf. OHG *reiza "line". For contrast, O.E. þeode meant both "race" and "language;" as a verb, geþeodan, it meant "to unite, to join.")

7. Seize (from O.Fr. seisir "to put in possession of, to take possession of," from L.L. sacire, from Frankish *sakjan "lay claim to", from P.Gmc. *sokjanan or P.Gmc. *satjan)

8. Vermouth (from Fr. vermouth, from Ger. Wermuth, from O.H.G. wermuota)

9. Waste (from Anglo-Fr./ O.N.Fr. waster "to spoil, ruin" and O.Fr. wast, from Frankish *wastjan (“a waste”). Could be that Latin vastō may have merged with Low Frankish *wōstin, *wōstinna (“a waste, wasteland”), from Proto-Germanic *wōstin-)

0. Band ("an organized group" also "a flat strip, something that binds", from M.Fr. bande and O.N.Fr. bende, from O.N. band, from P.Gmc. *bindan) Related to Germanic "bind" and "bend".

Germanic => O.N.Fr./ O.Fr. => Germanic (English)---these words are all Germanic. They are said in English almost the same as their root words, even though the went through O.N.Fr. first. Speak them proudly!

@jayles: I get what you're saying. I don't think that Latin words are truly "emotionally neutral", though. I think it comes down to the understanding of the student. What's more, it is that the meaning is shaped by the speaker. Said angrily, "disruptive" might come across as too emotionally charged. How something is said is key here. I guess "disruptive" will always go over better than "troublemaker"at a Parent/Teacher meeting. Why not say to a rowdy student, "you are cutting in to everyone's class-time!" instead of, "you are disrupting my class!". Or, "you are keeping everyone from learning." Using the pronoun "you" is going to make it personal, thereby making it emotional. I really don't see a difference between "he was being disruptive" vs. "his behavior was unsettling". What sense does it make to "criticize the behavior not the student", when the student is the root of the unwelcome behavior? To me, they go hand in hand.

Here are some other words to think about:

* upsetting
* irksome
* trying
* troubling/ troublesome

@wlyan138:

You are right about Gothic have "dis-" as a word-binder: Ex. distaíran (to tear apart) and dishaban (to seize upon).

I am not so sure that a making a loan word with English words will work well here, even given the Gothic "dis-". The Anglo-Saxon already has a word that would work in the stead of "disruptive" and even for "separate, divide" or "destroyed": sunder, as in, break asunder. "sunder" means 'to break apart or in two : separate by or as if by violence or by intervening time or space ' as a transitive verb, and "to become parted, disunited, or severed" as a intransitive verb.

Ex. "She tore my heart asunder."; "The royal family was sundered by scandal."; "East and West Berlin were sundered by a wall."

Hook on whichever ending you want and there you have it.

* sundersome "I find your behavior sundersome."
* sundering "You have shown nothing but a sundering attitude today."
* sunderful "Your actions are sunderful."
* sundered "You have been sundered from your group."
* sunderish " You have sunderish behavior."

What do you think?

Ængelfolc: Yes OE did have toshed, todo, tofare, tolie, sunder and others for seperate. You have todeal which meant divide along with tweem and many others. And don't even get me started on how many words OE had for destroy, they seem endless. OE very often shows itself to not only be just as broad as now-time english in its wordstock, but it often outgoes it, disproving the myth that OE was a far inferior language greatly bettered by its borrowings.

I like the how-abouts that you gave, the root sunder works well for disruptive, though seeing as how sunder also means to seperate it might be called for to use something like disbreaksome. The can-bes are endless though.

@jayles: I see. I misunderstood. I thought we were talking only about students. Anyway, English would work great in any of the work settings you wrote about. The working World is full of Latin words owing only to how folks were taught. They are at home with these words, so they are spoken for, and at, work.

Yes, we German speakers do say "Sie" in business or if we don't know someone too well. It is more truthful and open to be that way.

"You must do this now." or "We must do this now." Which is better? Well, that hangs on whether one wants to (obfuscate) the meaning or not. When one's boss (likely from Frankish *botija, but not yet borne out) says, "We", he isn't trying to speak French. He/she means "you" or "us, without me", "all of you". That is never good. Folks understand that they are the ones having to do the work. So, why not say so? English makes it hard to hide the truth. If everyone were more open and frank, more true understanding could take place. The World would be a much better place. You and I acknowledge that any word meaning is heavily marked by how something is said.

One should be able to be open and truthful with one's husband or wife:

"I love you very much honey, but your farting is: unsettling/upsetting/irksome/tiresome/trying/wearisome/wearying/bothersome/maddening/nettlesome/nettling/off-putting/sickening/a turn-off/foul/gruesome/icky/rotten/stinky/awful/bad/grim/wretched/dreadful/godawful/ghastly/raunchy (from Frankish *hring)/boorish/piggish/shameful/dirty/unbecoming" And so on and so forth. There shouldn't be a need for shades of gray here. ;-)

As for business dealings, one should learn the folkways of one's customers. Handle them with kindness, understanding, and in an open, truthful way. There is never a need to put on a "dog and pony show", if one always takes the higher, truthful, path.

Just my 2 cents. Have a good day!

Disrupt has qute a specific meaning, of causing a break in the happening or doing of something. In many cases using upset or unsettle or any of Ængelfolc's other examples wouldn't capture the whole meaning of disrupt. Disrupt kind of has the meaning of habitually interrupting. Any way i'm just saying that try as you might very often there is no clear germanic instead-word for disrupt that has the same subtely it does.

Take the word interrupt, related to disrupt. I would never go up to two people having a speak-about, and say "sorry to upset you," or "sorry to unsettle you'', no I would say "sorry to interrupt", because interrupt has the meaning of causing a break in something that is happening, here the talking of the two people. This is why i feel in these cases, we are forced to be creative, and come up with germanic english insteaders for these words that can be readily uderstood. If I went up to two people talking and said, ''Sorry to break between, but I was just wondering if.." I think that would be very understandable, and captures the meaning of interrupt perfectly. Here, between acts as a pronoun at the end of a seperable prefix verb. Or how about come between for intervene, another straight oversetting from the latin, -- "if this goes on for any longer, the military will have to come between"'-- a bit odd sounding, but very acceptable especially given what I feel is an everything-goes style of speaking among youth especially.

The subtely and specificity of many of our latin words often cannot be captured by our current germanic english wordstock. This often calls for coining new readily understood words, but often just needs a bit of stretching of english words, like break between, or come between, in which case you wouldn't really be coining a new word, just using break and between, or come and between in a slightly odd way.

So quite clearly Harold Godwin just got his just comeuppance for being less than "Frank"; had he been a little more open, frank and truthful, ..well who knows?

Saying inbutting is unusable is innacurate. It's not so much unusable as it is incommon, but I'll bet you that somewhere in the world some native english speaker spontaneously used inbutting. After all, it does follow one of english's adjective formation rules (think oncoming). With words like inbutting, the usability of them really just hangs on the speaker's willingness to accept new words, and to shape words following english's word formation rules, instead of speaking by an if-it's-not-in-the-dict.-it's-not-a-word philosophy. "Jim, you're always butting in line, you're so inbutting." That to me is a fantastic wordstring.
In what sense then is inbutting not as word if for one it is wholly understandable and for two it follows word formation rules. saying it is unusable is just an example of how we've come to think of our language as being owned and wielded by some outside force ("those who make the dictionary"), instead of laying claim to our langauge and owning it ourselves. I would liken words like inbutting and downgoing and onsitting, and so on, to adjectives made using ''y." Virtually any noun can take a y to become an adj: boxy, computery, grassy, doory: these words are for sure used but of course not all can be put in a dictionary because of the sheer manyness of them. In the same way any sep. verb in the form of verb+prep can be forshaped into prep.verb.ing to make an adj. You will not find these adj in the dict because that would be impractical, and you will not hear these words everyday, because rare are the situations that need them, but they are nonetheless words.

French-gilded Germanic word of the day:

affray(n.) L. ex- "out of" + Frankish *frithu "peace," from P.Gmc. *frithuz "peace, consideration, forbearance".

"So quite clearly Harold Godwin just got his just comeuppance for being less than "Frank"; had he been a little more open, frank and truthful, ..well who knows?" LOL!

It seems Harold II (Godwinesunu) was not truly frank with William of Normandy, but neither was William the Bastard open and truthful with Harold II (Godwinesunu).

It has been brought forth, that in about 1064, Harold II sailed to Normandy. No one knows why. It is thought that Harold II swore some kind of an oath of fealty to William, and had it done, unbeknown to Harold II, over the bones of a saint to bind it.

They were both untruthful, weren't they? I think so.

Also, it goes a little deeper. It is said in Norman folklore that the Normans had been asking Edward for the English crown (upon death), since before the banishing (about 1051) of Godwin. Although, William himself said that Edward I swore (about 1052) to give him the crown. Furthermore, the Witenagemot chose Harold II as king, even though earlier, the the group was not friendly to Godwin and his kinfolk.

I still stand by what I wrote: "...always takes the higher, truthful, path..."

Cheers!

wlyan138 : you are right on the money in saying that disruptive has a very specific meaing of stalling a process or in my example stopping the progress of a lesson. This is indeed the important point. As for "inbutting" I really can't teach words that are not in current use already. And there is a target list of high frequency vocabulary to concentrate on. Also "inbutting" only covers interruptions, whereas "disruptive" covers
ANY behavior that impinges on true participation in the lesson, like quietly texting away in your lap. It is a beautiful catch-all word.
"undermining" is a possibility. "disturbing" might quickly lead to the suggestion that I am disturbed, which has psychiatric connotations. The pity is that Gernman has a nice word "stoeren" which might fit the bill, but I think it is "stir" in English with a different meaning, except in the phrase "he was a stirrer" ie troublemaker.
It is a case, as you rightly acknowledge, where le mot juste happens to be a latinate word.
Ængelfolc: Without in any way trying to undermine your postion, I think we should consider the possiblity that the Normans wrote history to justify the conquest. Harold, had he won, would have put a different spin on the whole thing.
"Honey, my boss has been undermining our marriage"

@jayles:

Thank you, but what you wrote is well understood, and is a given.The writings from Norway, Denmark, Normandy/France, England, and the Church, at the least, should all be likewise regarded to get somewhere near the truth of what happened. What I wrote is founded on what is known from these writings. They are all we have to go on.

A good book to read about this is: "The Norwegian invasion of England in 1066"
by Kelly DeVries (1999). It stirs up many thoughts and "what-if's" in one's mind, but the book is well grounded by books from all sides. Give it a read, you'll not be sorry.

Stir (O.E. styrian, from P.Gmc. *sturjanan). German 'stören' is from the same root, and can mean a lot of things hinged up what is being said: disturb, interrupt, annoy, bother, perturb, upset, jam a radio signal, commove, asf. It is really a great catch-all word that makes its meaning from what is being talked about.

'Stir' has many great ways it can be put to work:

* (n.) "You caused quite a stir (impression)."
* (tr.v.) "Don't stir up anything with my mother."
* (tr.v.) "That music stirs (rouses) my soul."
* (itr.v.) "...not a creature was stirring (slightly moving)..."
* (itr.v.) "Stir the soup."

'Stir' was also a slang word for "prison", whence "stir-crazy".

Another French gilding of Germanic:

Array (from L. ad- "to" + Frank. *ræd- "ready").

Other Germanic word that English speakers should not eschew:

* eschew (from Frankish *skiuhan "dread, avoid, shun," from P.Gmc. *skeukhwaz. 'Shy" is from the same root. Borrowed into Italian (schiavare) and Old French (eschiver)
* ease/ easy (O.Fr. aisie, likely from a Germanic or Celtic source. cf. OE ēaþe, *auþijaz (“easy, pleasing”), from *auþiz.) Conflicting forms in Romance point to an external, non-Latin origin.
* Norman (a "Northman", from O.Fr. Normanz, plural of Normand, from O.E. word for "a Norwegian"-Norðman. "Nortmanni" seems to be the source of O.Fr. Normand)
* brioche (N.Fr. broyer, from from W.Gmc. *brekan "to break".)
* carp (from O.Fr. carpe (13c.), from V.L. carpa (c.575), from a Germanic source (cf. M.Du. carpe, Du. karper, O.H.G. karpfo, Ger. Karpfen), possibly Gothic *karpa.)
* trot (from O.Fr. trot (12c.), from Frankish *trotton-variant of 'tread')
* scallop ( from O.Fr. escalope. Latin words with initial sp-, st-, sc- usually acquired an e- when borrowed by Old French; from Frankish, from P.Gmc. *skælo; cf. O.N. skalpr)
* robe (O.Fr. robe "long, loose outer garment", from Frankish *rauba, *rouba "booty, spoils, stolen clothes"; from Proto-Germanic *raubō, *raubaz, *rauban.)
* ribald (from O.Fr. ribaltfrom Old Frankish *rīben , from Proto-Germanic *wrībanan)
* egret (dim. from Low Frankish *haigro (“heron”))
* furbish (from O.Fr. forbiss-, from Frankish *furbjan (“to clean, polish”))
* tarnish (M.Fr. ternir , from Frankish *tarnjan (“to cover up, conceal, hide”))

It would seem that the true bearing of "insular French" is shrinking by the word.

More to come...

Harold's death in 1066 cast a long SHADOW over England. That's why the English always carry UMBRELLAS, "lest we forget." On a wet and crowded street, dodging umbrella spokes, spare a thought for 1066, it was certainly "one in the eye" for Harold.

@jayles: How clever! Good show! Too bad we will most likely never know the whole truth of Harold II's death. It is understood that Harold II died at Senlac Hill. Who knows for sure. The "arrow in the eye" seems highly unlikely, though. Take a look at the Bayeux tapestry. The tapestry goes against much of the eye-witness tales of Harold II's death. Very thought-stirring!

Cheers!

Check out this good book: King Harold II and the Bayeux Tapestry
by Gale R. Owen-Crocker.

I always thought the Bayeux Tapestry depicted the UEFA cup finals in 1066, with the English football hooligans singing "you'll never walk alone" upon the terraces, and horseback riders trying to control the scimmage. Harold likely just poked himself in the eye with his own umbrella. Final score: Normandy:1, England: nil.
But maybe I'm just dreaming.

@jayles: Silly!

"Scrimmage" is Germanic, by the way. It is misshaped 'skirmish', from Frankish *skirmjan.

I think you got the score wrong, though.

I am fully aware that Old English had words for everything mentioned. It is my thinking that Old English with which i am very familiar, often shows itself to be far richer than modern english.
I am also fully at one with using germanic english already in use whenever mightly. However I also uphold tapping in to the slumberfast germanic potential of english, which to me is twofold: bringing back OE words, especially the ones that can be readily understood more or less, and coming up with new words from english roots.
Forwhy after all, I am all for broadness and sundriness in english-- i would like to see foreign words go, but ideally i would like to see english's wordstock stay just as big which would call for bringing back some or a lot of germanicness into english

you seem to know quite a bit of OE yourself. Why not help further the Old English Wordbook on the anglish moot? I've been working on it for quite some time now, and it's looking pretty good.

@wlyan138: Thanks for your feedback. How do I go about helping make the Anglish Moot Old English Wordbook? What kind of help do they need over at Anglish Moot?

I would like nothing more than to bring back some of the Ænglisc words (like woruldwīsdōm (education), uþwitegung (philosophy), rīmcræft (mathematics), bōccræft (literature), tungolcræft (astronomy), asf.), at least, for the English-speaking landfolk (native) in the land (country) itself. For business (which is more and more globalize), we'd still have to know English glob-speak (with all the Latinate, Greek, and other foreign influences). Sad, but true.We'd have to be twīspræcisc (bi-lingual).

English has never lost its "Germanicness", it has only been overgrown with outlandish words and academic swindling. This overgrowth can, however, be trimmed away.

My goal is to have English spoken, at all times, with words already in the wordbook. Those words are being thoughtlessly overlooked only to have an outlandish-word put in its stead.

http://anglish.wikia.com/wiki/Headside

scroll down to the bottom of the page where all the wordbooks are listed. The Old English wordbook is where OE words that didn't make it into now-time english are "updated" if you will. The idea is that we apply to OE words the sound-changes that english went through to becomes today's english, showing what these words would look like today. The forthstep (process) is not exact but we can have a pretty good idea of what these words would look like for the most part.

Why is an updated OE word more acceptable than a latinate one? Both are the tongue of immigrants, incomers, overcomers, latecomers, settlers from overseas. The true tongue of Britain is of course Celtic, Welsh or Gaelic. Not quite the Urheimat of the Celts, but the birthright tongue of Britain nevertheless, and extant in Britain thousands of years before Anglo Saxon. Welsh is a living language taught at schools, spoken and used in Wales. Gaelic still has about 60000 native speakers. More than Anglish!. Arthur died at Badon hill defending the Celtic heritage. Boudicca fought off the Romans........ and so forth.... the propaganda of "history"

Dude there are many reasons for anglish, if you haven't understood them by now then whatever speak and write mongrel english. Look as we anglishers have said time and time again, it is most often the case that germanic english, and this also means resurrected OE words, is more in keeping with the core of english, its words are more descriptive because their roots, their morphology is easily recognizable. This adds to to the life of words, it also gives us a functional morphology for god's sake--when we can recognize roots being mixed and put together in different ways, we see where words get their meaning from, the roots come alive and we can then use them (they become funtional) to create even more words. We can't do this with french or latin or greek roots because we dont fucking know what they mean, it's like speaking in code. You see, when words are made up of native germnaic english roots they bring an image to mind, they are not just many-syllabled words that act as raw symbols with no recognizable inner structure. Look it comes down to a matter of aesthetics, in a way there is no logic to the anglish argument-- it's this: I feel that anglish is more beautiful because it is more descriptive and works as a whole, there is a oneness to the language, an integrity because all it's parts are clear to me and I have the ability to use them all, because I know them all. So actually it does go beyond beauty--their is the argument of understandability, and clearness.

Another argument is the beauty of purity. I know it sounds lame and stupid, but really it means something. Why do you think icelanders make sure no foreign words creep into their language--because that would ruin the purity of it, the wholeness of it, it would lose part of itself, its identity would be marred. Language provides identity, an identiy that goes beyond blood, it really is a huge part of it for many people. But if your language is made up of many other languages, what shall your identity be, to whom shall you pledge allegiance-to the english, to the french, the latin, the greek? And the thing with embracing all parts is this- you are forced to divide up your love, so that you experiece only a bit of love for each part. But if you have a pure tongue, then all your love goes to that one and only part of it, it becomes the exlusive receiver of your love. Believe me exclusivity is huge in the human psyche. which is why we form pair-bonds, and are for the most part monogamous.

the thing with mongrel english is that I cannot fully feel the power of it's germanicness, because it is not fully germanic. I can also not fully feel the power of its frenchness, because it is not fully french. And so on and so forth with the latin and greek parts. So i am left with feeling to a limited degree the power of all its parts, instead of feeling the full power of one, pure part.

I mean if we are to have no problem with mongrelness in languages, then why all the fuss about protecting languages against globalization. hell screw protecting them, if english words creep into their languages, all the better, what's so bad about mongrelness right, isn't it diversity? well it's not diversity- mongrelness destroys the uniqueness of the parts which come together to make the mongrel-- 2 or more things being turned into only one thing. This is the deception of this misnamed diversity. In order for linguistic diversity to be kept up, languages must remain pure, not only english, but all languages.

@jayles: More (agent provocateuring)?

I think you are right about one thing: The propaganda of "history". You brought up a few: King Arthur (Historical misgivings, not yet borne out), King Arthur at The Battle of Mons Badonicus (unsettled that Arthur was there, but not likely). Both of these are wielded often by Celtic newspeak firebrands, even when the truth is rather clouded and murky.

In Tacitus' Agricola (xv), it is put forth that the Iceni were heartened by the Cherusci's uprising against the Romans in Germany: "Sic Germanias excussisse iugum: et flumine, non Oceano defendi." They thought, "if the Germans can do it, why can't we?" The Germans unwittingly helped the Iceni in a roundabout way. Germanic propaganda? Maybe.

Maybe Boudicca was trying to make up for Antedios (King of the Iceni, 25-47 A.D.) selfishness. Antedios forsook the Iceni time and again for Roman gifts and backing. Antedios chose not to stand against Claudius' takeover in 43 A.D., and did not back the Iceni uprising in 47 A.D. (the year in which he was murdered for his falsehoods). More newspeak?

It does not seem anyone is saying that an "Anglish Wordbook" is, or should be, more welcome than a mixed English one. The froward seems to be true. Those who speak up for England's (or anyone's) Germanic background seem to always be beset with hateful mockery (Old Saxon *mokkian, *mukkian) and scorn (P.Gmc. *skarnjan). At the same time, these same foes of English "Germanic-ness" always try to fasten the lowest kind of shame to the thought of it, as well as, its upholders and friends. It is wrong-headed to eschew the truth of England's Teutonic side, as it is to do the same to England's Celtic side.The truth, as is oft said, is somewhere in-between.

When speaking about "Britain", I take it that you mean Romano-Britain. After all, the Romans stormed into Brittania in 43 A.D., and did not leave until they had to leave (the Roman Empire was crumbling). 43 A.D. is widely thought to be the beginning of British history. Or, are you talking about the folks before the Romans came (Old Stone Age of Britain to 43 A.D.)? The earliest writings about Britain come from the Pytheas in 325 B.C., called the folks he saw 'Prettanoi' (Prettani, whence Brittania).

Stephen Oppenheimer, in his book 'The Origins of the British', puts forth the belief that folks in Britain, before the Germanics came, did not evenly speak Celtic tongues, and that there may have been British folks who spoke Germanic tongues even before the Romans came.

I put forth that speech is the carrier of a folks way of life. You say Celtic is the "birthright tongue of Britain". If this is true, does that not deem that everyone in "Britain" is of a Celtic folkway instead of a Germanic folkway? The truth would look to be something else. Things don't seem to be so straightforward.

What must be rightly asked is what tongue is the birthright of the Germanic English, not the Romano-British folks? That is what has been, and is being talked about here. In rightly the same way that the backers of Celtic (Goidelic and Brythonic) hedge against "linguistic corruption and extinction", so too do the backers of Germanic English have that same right.

I cannot understand why there is, or would be any, strong, angry stand against keeping (or trying to keep) English as Germanic as can be.

wlyan138: German or Dutch are both much purer than English, and have some good literature etc, Oder hast Du keine Lust dazu? (Or hast thou no Lust thereto?)

Sometimes the virtues of English word roots can be overstated. For example, the meaning of phrasal verbs such as "give up" or "put up with" is not easily deduced from their constituent parts, but rather inferred from the context. Other examples might include "undergo" "forego". Equally even if one understands the Latin roots, the meaning of "succeed" is not easily deduced. It's sometimes the same in German. "Unfall", (unfall) does not obviously mean "accident". So people learn the meaning from context, and the roots may be just a side issue, or even a red herring.

Ængelfolc: Provocateur? Moi? Honi soit qui mal y pense! But such stirring replies!
Seriously though, I deal with people from countries all over the world. The most striking thing is that despite all their differences Europeans have more in common with each other than with, say, Vietnamese, Koreans, Thai, etc. So it doesn't make a lot of sense to say this is Germanic, and that is Greek, when in fact they are both European, and sometimes muddled together. The EU is there for a reason.
Let us take Hungary as an example. Romans, Avars, Arpad and co, Genghis, Schwabisch, Ottomans, Slavs, Soviets, you name it they've been there, and affected the language, and the people. All we can say is they are European and today's Hungarian is European. English is much the same, just a "mongrel' language, but no worse for that. Yes those Latinate words can sound snooty, but we can avoid them in daily speech. I think you already agree with my general drift here. Ciao!

jayles: it was from me learning german that i first got stirred in me the thought of a purer, more germanic english. And i do not pretend that germanic words do not need context for their meanings to be drawn out--all words in the end need context or else no one would ever learn any word and humans would be without langauge. It is of course a matter of degree-- how much context?, is the word just a raw symbol or is it made up of recognizable parts, like unfall, a much more powerful and stirring word than the word accident which again is only a raw symbol for what it tokens. True, context is still needed for children or language learners to learn the meaning of unfall, but at least there is some kind of clue to it, as well as an image-stirring, almost metaphorical suchness(quality) to it, which is fully untheresome (absent) in accident.

And to say well all europeans are alike so that means doing away with language purity is alright is pretty untodowith--we are talking about languages not racial or cultural groups. Different languages of similar cultures are still different languages, and they should stay that way (and therefore stay pure and unmixed) so that language-diversity might be upheld. if all the world were to adopt one culture would it then be okay for all languages to mix, thus hurting language-diversity?

And in any case the cultures of europe do differ enough such that each land-folk has their own selfhood. The germanics are different from the mediteraneans are different from the eastern europeans.

Reckon not much setting needed for anyone to get the word: 'everbear'

Even though it looks like its been around forever, I have never heard or thought of it before...I think (?)

Anyway, don't know if it comes under Anglish but nonetheless it strengthens the Englishness of English.

///11. Special Combinations: ever-bearer, a plant which bears flowers and fruits (sometimes simultaneously) for a long time; hence ever-bearing adj.; ever-being a., that always is; hence everbeingness; everbleving vbl. n. [f. bleve, BELEAVE v.], everlastingness; ever-bloomer = ever-bearer (orig. applied to a rose); hence ever-blooming adj.; everbrown n., a plant always brown (humorously after evergreen)///

@jayles:

"...it doesn't make a lot of sense to say this is Germanic, and that is Greek, when in fact they are both European, and sometimes muddled together. The EU is there for a reason."

This is away from English, but on what true ground is the E.U. built? Is "sameness" a smart, worthy goal? The E.U. is trying to be a "United States of Europe", but can it ever really be that? Is wresting away folks right to be who they are an upright thing to do? Wherefore came the E.U. into being? Has it rightly grown beyond that? Are the folks really better off? Do the Germans, Danes, Brits, Swiss, Czech, Poles, Dutch, French, asf, need a "parent government"? Read the "Lisbon Treaty", or look it up. If one hasn't read it, it will be an eye-opener. Guaranteed (Frankish *warand)!

Germans and Greeks are folks live on the bit of Earth that is better marked as the Headland of Eurasia. The British Isles are not thought of as Europe (politics aside). Who says, "I'm European." What does that mean other than "I was born and live somewhere on the headland called Europe"? Loosely, Germans, Spaniards, Greeks, Italians, French, asf, have a slender link to each other, but so what of it? All of these folks made their own ways of speaking, doing,and being. Overall, they are NOT the same folks.

This mixed-bag of lands and folks, on the whole, is what is so lovely about the World, whether we talk about today or yesterday. And, yes, they do sometimes mix together, but again, so what? That doesn't make for a "European" way of life, anymore than the U.S. and Canada share a "North American" way of life. It must be said that the U.S. and Canada do have many things that are alike, but there are also those things which make the two truly unalike.

"Sameness", within this framework of understanding, it seems to me, crushes the heart of what it is to truly be a human being. Danke, ich verzichte.

Now back to Ænglisc...

Ængelfolc: It is a matter of Weltanschauung*. Students from South America, from Russia east of the Urals I think of as having "European" culture, educational background, and attitudes, when compared to say, Arabic-speakers, or students from SE Asia, where their background, educational experiences, and culture may be quite different. Of coure I am aware that this is an overgeneralisation, but forewarned is forearmed for what problems may crop up in working together.
For instance I once asked a Japanese student how people complained in Japan. "You don't", (And apropos of nothing I once asked a Japanese diplomat why they attacked Pearl Harbor.....I expected "No comment" but....really shouldn't have embarrased him)
As for the EU, well one would hope its raison d'etre would be to foster working together instead of starting great wars.... but it really was just a throwaway remark. (Frankish!)
But your soapbox is nice.
Which brings us to weltanschauung, abseil, angst, anschluss, autobahn, automat, sauerkraut, schadenfreude, schmalz, schmuck, schwa, shyster, spiel, shtum, and so on. These are all listed in English dictionaries. Are we to throw them out because they are foreign? Or accept them as English simply because they are germanic? Be careful with schmuck, it might be slav. The point in my view is whatever, they are European, that's good enough.

Oh and I once vary unwisely asked a guy from the "Middle East" what his wife's name was...

jayles: we should keep foreign words that are one-syllabled, meaning they have no inner framework. However shadenfreude is a word that stands for a pretty abstract thought and so it makes perfect sense to englishen it into the endlessly more understandable hurt-joy, hurt-gladness or something of the kind. It's not so much about germanicness as it is about wholeness and clearness.It would be just as bad for english to be a mongrel of english and german as it is for english to be a mongrel of english and french. Shadenfreude is a terrible english word for the simple reason that it is not english--it is flat-out foreign, made up of two bits which are foreign. God even the spelling gives it away-foreign! WTF shaden is not english neither is freude so why the hell is shadenfreude deemed a word. And weltanshauung? I'm sorry but that has to be one of the stupidest words ever to make it into the wordbook. Clearly worldoutlook is endlessly better because it says what it means. Clearness, understandableness, and wholeness over mongrelness. same goes for abseil (offrope or rope off). I rest my case

@jayles: Thank you for shedding light on what you meant. I better understand. Good show acknowledging "remark" as Frankish. I think it belongs to English. It is a Germanic word with a little Latin feel.

Now, I would not call those folks you brought up as having "European culture". Rather, I say they'd have a Western upbringing as set against an Arab or Asian background. There has always been a sharp split between the Eastern and the Western halves of the World. What is "European culture"? No one can say well what that means. Saying "Western culture", however, takes in all of the many folkways on the Eurasian headland, as well as, the lands further West beyond the British Isles (Iceland, Greenland, Canada, and the U.S.). Indeed, South America and it's folkways are something altogether unlike what one thinks of as "Western culture". As I said, it's not so straightforward and open to one's World outlook (as you said).

"Foot in mouth" is all I could think of when I read your brush with the Japanese fellow. You made it out okay, though, right?! You forgot to speak Roman-English, huh? LOL

Your "soapbox" remark (Frankish) seems like back-handed flattery (Frankish *flat). It was not meant to come across as big-headed or in an overbearing kind of way. I am sure that the Salmon feels the flow of the river water is overbearing when it swims upstream, too. It is hard to think politically "upstream". I was only wanting to stir up some thoughts...to have the mind opened. If I have done that for one reader of this blog, I am happy and hopeful.

Your E.U. remark didn't come across as "throwaway". It seemed to be written in such a way as to back your thought ( and oddly, the E.U.'s) about doing away with the "cultural identity" of the folks living in the Eurasian headland.

As for throwing out all of the German words, I say no. As I have written earlier, I am for keeping any and all Germanic words, as well as, some Latin and French (and maybe Greek). I am against over-borrowing and the seemingly willful watering down of Germanic English.

You are right about "schmuck". In German, der Schmuck ('jewelry', 'decoration') and schmuck (adj. 'dapper', 'neat') are likely not where the Eastern Yiddish word "schmok" came from. The Old Polish word "smok" ('dragon') is much more likely given its earliest spelling and Yiddish meaning. Although, weirder things have been shown to be true!

"...whatever..." seems scornful and unacknowledging to me. I do give you, though, that those folks all do live in what is marked as Europe. As for it being "good enough", well, that's for another time...

Thanks for your thoughts, jayles! Machs gut!

Ængelfolc: Well I must say this column is quite entertaining; I haven't had such linguistic fun since I left skool; thank you. "Soapbox" was in fact forehanded flattery,
'"Foot in mouth": -- not at all : in fact very deliberate training in answering awkward questions diplomatically.
"Western" and "Eastern" and "Middle East" don't make much sense if you live in Hong Kong, as the middle east is in the far west and so forth. They are eurocentric terms.
Not trying "to do away with cultural identity" just wouldn't want the Balkan/ Bosnia/Sarajevo situation to trigger another "Great War" .

So German words are acceptable but 'unakzeptabel" is not, Oder?

Tsch

@wlyan138:

Die Schadenfreude is not foreign in the same way that Romance, Asian, Arabic, and Greek words are. Yes, the word is from German, but German is kin to English. German and English are "sisters". The both come from Proto-German and are of the West Germanic bough. English truthfully is a blend of many Germanic tongues: Old Saxon, Old Frankish, Old Norse (Danish), Old Dutch, Anglo-Frisian, asf. It is all guess-work, but in all likelihood, nonetheless true. I mean know one knows all of the Germanic folks that sooner or later became the "Anglo-Saxons". Indeed, you know that.

To show kinship:

Schaden (from P.Gmc. *skath-) = Scathe (v.) which in English, came from O.N. skaða. "Scathe" said in German is either 'die Beleidigung' or 'der Schaden'.

Freude (from P.Gmc. *frawa-) = In English "frith" (friþu, friþ) and "frolic" (cf. Ger. fröhlich).

Now, yes, English would need to put English words in the stead of the German ones :

Schaden => scathe, hurt, harm, Freude => mirth, glee, gladness, happiness

So, "scathe-frith" is the English word. Why not just say "sadistic", "gloat(ing), or the English "Roman Holiday"? Friedrich Nietzsche thought up this idea in 1895, and it shortly made it into most tongues. The word is understood by its bits in Germany, but only if it is learned in English. So what? It seems to be a rightful borrowing that was gladly taken into English. For me, it is in the same group of borrowings as 'sushi', 'sauerkraut', 'street', 'pistol', asf. The thought (or folkway) arose outside of English. In this way, to me, it belongs in English.

My 2 Marks. ;-) Cheers!

@jayles:

"So German words are acceptable but 'unakzeptabel" is not, Oder?" Nein, auf keinen Fall! http://www.vds-ev.de/

Other better words to say: (nicht oder un) annehmbar or untragbar. German does not need the Latin-French word at all. It is a great show of uncalled for wanton borrowing.

The word "Western" is not always understood to mean direction. The Western World is considered to be lands where Indo-European tongues are spoken and European folkways are mainly undertaken. The West (or Western World) is well-known as the well-spring of technology and modernity. The folks in Hong Kong (and most everywhere else) know and understand this, too.

The break-up of South Slavia was a many sided thing. Government owned a big share of the blame. So, the way I see it, it's not likely that "Big Brother" of any kind, is the answer.

Asking a Japanese diplomat why the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor was diplomatic training??

Gruß...

Ængelfolc:
Yes I know german is kin to english, and really we are one on this thought here. The german bits must be set out over into english. If schaden and freude are not found on their own then putting them together makes no sense, so we would have to englishen shadenfreude inot something like scathe-frith. now scathefrith is an awesome word, but more understandable ones to today's speakers would be hurt-gladness, hurt-glee. Scathe is used today as a do-word, so that could work as a thing-word i guess, but frith is not widely known. I am of course all for bringing OE words back, but for a right-now word for shadenfreude, something like hurt-gladness would be better understood. but the choices clearly are broad.

to be in a state of sheer coldblooded 'scathefrithshire'

scathefrithful happenstance left many a gleen and gladden mind and heart

twas my foes dreadful comeuppance that hast maketh my smile the happiest in the church of scathefrith

or something like: 'badmindedhappiness' or 'spitehappy' (slaphappy)

Guys: surely glee or gloating is good enough in the right context.
Ængelfolc: can't practise sidestepping awkward questions without asking awkward questions,

Ængelfolc: besides featuring in the Milosevich, Karadich, Mladic, UN "safe-haven" saga, Sarajevo was also where the European war of 1914 started. It would be nice to think that the EU would forestall another one.

I think that GLEE and GLOAT(ing) are great.

glee (M.E. glien, gleen, O.E. gléo, glēo and cognate to O.Norse glȳ, gljā, from a P.Gmc. *gliuujan. The word is not found in other Germanic tongues.

gloat (from O.N. glotta. Cf. MHG & German Glotzen)

"Schadenfreude" is a Nietzschean word that was rightly borrowed, since it is a thought that was shaped outside of English. Think about "church", "priest" and so forth. Christian terms (which are mostly, if not all Latin) belong in English don't they?

My 2 Marks...again.

One more thing:

When a loan-word is borrowed into English, if it can be Anglified word for word, it is:

Will to Power (an Nietzschean word in German is der Wille zur Macht).

World War (from German "Weltkrieg")

Loanword (from German "Lehnwort")

Power Politics (from German "Machtpolitik")

Super Ego (from German "über-Ich")

Rain Forest (from German "Regenwald")

Homesickness (from German "Heimweh")

The list could go on forever. But, it cannot be always done word for word to get the best meaning:

Übermensch (another Nietzschean thought, is fought about in English. Some like "Overman" and some like "Superman". And, there is even "Beyond Human". Funnily, "super" is not even English...it's Latin.)

The thing is, "über" is a word with many meanings which hangs on the framework in which it is said and how it feels and flows when it is uttered.

An extra Mark, sorry....

I meant to write, "Whether a loanword (lehnwort) is Anglified, or not, has to do with how it feels and flows when it is uttered in English."

@jayles:

You are right--"doing" is a great teacher! LOL

Now about The Great War (and some of its roots):

* The Treaty Alliance System--'War Decl." Au.Hun -> Serbia; Russia -> Au.Hun; Germany -> Russia; France -> Germany; Britain (along with Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, South Africa) -> Germany; U.S. -> Germany; Japan -> Germany; Italy -> Germany & Au.Hun. (government)

* Austro-Hungarians wanted to crush the nationalist movement so that it would gain strong sway over the Balkans, undo Serbia's sovereignty, and to uphold the two-Monarchy rule. (government)

* Black Hand murdered Archduke Franz-Ferdinand (political group interests, maybe government)

* Imperialistic Foreign Policies by all of the great European governments (government)

* Fighting about Land (government)

* Economics (government)

And so forth. It's a lovely thought that you have, but, again, highly unlikely that more centralized, sterile government means more peace, security, and prosperity for all.

Folks need, and have a right to be, and be free.

Good back and forth, jayles! Alles Gute!

How about a bit of leethsong, here is my poem yeclept:

Horsefeatheriness...

We must fly, a foulfullful doing alights, feathered friends flee, fowlfull skies team, we must. Once at the peck, beck and call of fowl, tree and bush now live underlifed and birdsong no longer full, so we must. With a reck and tell of hundreds and thousands we must be fulfillful of the fowlfull sky above.

loanwayed
foulfullful
fowlfull
underlifed
reck and tell

*we must be fulfillful of the fowlfull sky above. Fly!*

*we must be fulfillful of the fowl filled sky above. Fly!*

Thought-stirring:

I am reading a good book about loanwords in tongues across the World (written in 2009), and it marks where English is weakest: Social & Political, Law, and Modern World words. Also, 40% of words about sickness/illness and the inner organs are loanwords. The other 60% are Germanic (or 'native').

As for English overall, English is still about 2/3 Germanic (Anglo-Saxon, Scandinavian, Dutch/Frisian, Frankish, asf.) even with all of the borrowing from French (25%), Latin (8%) and, to my shock, Greek (1.6%). Celtic, of any kind, makes up only .032% of English words.

Germanic far outweighs any other tongue when looking at the first 5000 words (upwards of 54% in any group inbetween). Between 5001 and 6000, though, English (Germanic) only makes up about 34% of those words.

All pronouns, conjunctions, and modal auxiliaries commonly used in English are Germanic.

Food for thought. More later...Cheers!

Another striking thing in this book is the list of borrow-rates from highest to lowest.

Tongue with the highest? Selice Romani (with just over 84% coming from Hungarian). The lowest? Mandarin Chinese.

Old High German, to my shock, was the second lowest! Indeed, the only true Celtic loanword in Old High German is Old Irish 'brunna' (armor)-cf. the Germanic name Brunhild(a). Old French gave only one: kussin ("pillow", cf. Ger. Kissen) and Italian, also one: zuckar ("sugar", cf. Ger. Zucker). The rest of the loanwords in Old High German are Latin from the Romans.

English was ranked fifth (when reckoning the Scandinavian (markedly Old Danish), German, Dutch/Frisian, Frankish, Gothic and other Germanic tongues that had bearing on English as loanwords).

Sadly, while the book does talk about the "back borrowing" through Norman-French, the writers seem to not have taken those words out of the French pool. If they would have done so, French (Vulgar-Gaulish-Latin) might only be at about 20%, not 25% of English loanwords.

Also the top five categories for borrowing:

1. Religion/Beliefs
2. Grooming/Fashion
3. House and Home
4. Law
5. Political and Social

One can see why French and Latin are greatly borrowed into every tongue, not just English. Anyway, Ænglisc is still very much a Germanic tongue in all ways, and rightfully so.

Funny enough, English uses loanwords to make Germanic-style compound words like 'television', telephone, motorcycle, asf. Another showing of the Germanicness of English.

The book put forth that speakers of British English are more laid-back about borrowings in English. Why? The writer notes students of British schools are not usually taught the history of English (it's rare he writes), so they take for granted that every word spoken is English. I have written it before: academia is the problem to overcome.

Hopefully, this will give more insight into the Ænglisc debate.

There was a map prepared for the Treaty of Trianon which showed the distribution of languages in "Greater Hungary" at the time. The remarkable feature was how mixed the distributions was,,, and still is. As one travels in this area, one village is Hungarian, the next Romani, another historically schwab, the next Slovak and so on. E.g Komarno/ Komarom, Acs etc... (Although I understand it was not clever to speak schwab in public under the Russian occupation). Hungarian itself has many borrowings from inter alia slav, and turkic. eg csutortok (thursday) and szerda are slav, vasar is our word bazaar from turkic. The core finno-ulgric words are few indeed. But it doesn't seem to bother them! English has a more open-door attitude to borrowings, particularly from French, although there are a few words from Hungarian like hussar, saber, coach. I like to think "bimbo" is too - it means bud or nipple. ;=))
For me the difficulty with English now is the plethora (Gk) of prefixes.
We have English, Latin and Greek, down, de-, cata-, and so on.
If we attempt to transfer the word transfer to English we get "crossbear" (or a cross bear) or overbearing which already has a meaning, Refer becomes backbear, or bareback or someting confusing. I have no argument with wishing to get rid of many latinate words, the problem is twofold: 1) finding an intelligible substitute and I submit that many "anglishisms" are just not easily understood by hoi polloi (gk), although I like "wordstock" just the vogue word is now lexis. 2) how in reality would one persuade people to make the change and if one succeeded wouldn't that render twentieth century english unintelligable to our greatgreatgrandchildren
Finally of course the answer is for schoolchildren everywhere to go back to learning Greek and latin as they used to in the good old days!
And finally finally what's the difference between a diphthong and a monothong?
The latter is worn by Brazilians girls on the beach.

Cool thing about "coach":

English coach is from M.Fr. coche. The French got it from German kotsche, Kutsche, and the Germans borrowed it from Hungarian kocsi (kosci szekér, "cart from Kocs"). Kocs is a village in Komárom-Esztergom, Hungary, where coaches were first made.

Saber follows the same Magyar-> German -> French path to English. I vote we keep these borrowed words in English. ;-)

Cool thing about "coach":

English coach is from M.Fr. coche. The French got it from German Kotsche, Kutsche, and the Germans borrowed it from Hungarian kocsi (kosci szekér, "cart from Kocs"). Kocs is a village in Komárom-Esztergom, Hungary, where coaches were first made.

Saber follows the same Magyar-> German -> French path to English. I vote we keep these borrowed words in English. ;-)

One thing to add about Sabre/Saber: In the Magyar Lexicon (1833) the writer seems to think that szabni (to cut) is originally Wallachian.

So, maybe the path, stemming from szabni, is Romanian-> Magyar-> German-> French-> English?

Thoughts about this?

Ængelfolc: re szabni (as in szabo a tailor) .. muss aber gestehen dass... actually I know very little Romanian as such, always been more interested in Csango - the kaval, moldvai furulyas, tilinka stb. and the dances themselves, which are markedly different from magyar nepzene.
I myself have long been interested in etymology but found little use for it in real life, even when teaching English. Obviously you too are interested; I have been wondering (as English do) whether this is just a hobby, or there is some "real" or "career-related" purpose in your quest?

Ængelfolc: A) When arriving from outer space, the most striking thing about this blue planet is the way in which homo sapiens (?!) has overrun it. As one of the few predators at the top of the pyramid, biologists reckon there should be only half a million of us to keep the prey/predator ratio in balance. With Medaeval agriculture the population of England hovered below the three million mark, unable to produce food for more. Now with oil-based fertilisers etc we support billions. So for me the number one problem is overpopulation. (shades of Lebensraum!) Watch world food prices! etc.
And on a personal level either be rich or live somewhere where there's enough to eat.
Now how does "Anglish" or plain-speaking fit into all this??? Not that relevant IMHO.
B) Sometimes I think we would be better off with NO history and NO etymology. Culturally poorer perhaps, but with no hangover excuses to fight wars and destroy each other. If we didn't know that "offer" came from latin it wouldn't bother us.
Okay enough preaching...

/All pronouns, conjunctions, and modal auxiliaries commonly used in English are Germanic/

/I have written it before: academia is the problem to overcome/

Indeed. What the heck is a 'pronoun' 'conjunction' and 'modal auxiliary' when they're at home? Do English words exist for these within Anglish academia? I reckon most homeborn English speakers haven't got the foggiest to what they mean. One of the most overriding things to do for Anglish, is to translate these kind of grammar terms.

Pronoun (Latin overbringing from Greek 'antononymia'): L. Pro- (in place of) + L. nomen (name). So, rightfully in English it should be 'steadname' or 'forname'(Cf. Danish 'stedord', Icelandic Fornöfn lit.'for-name').

Conjunction (Latin overbrining from Greek 'syndesmos'): L. com- ('together'; Cf. O.E./German 'ge-') + L. jugare ('to join'). So, in English it could be 'yokeword' or 'bind(ing)word'. Cf. Danish 'bindeord', Nynorsk 'bindeord', Dutch 'voegwoord', German 'Fügewort'.

Auxiliary, verb: Latin augere "to increase", as in 'give help to'. In English we could simply say help verb, but 'verb' is still Latin.

So, given that, we could say 'help-being-word' and 'help-work/do-word'. Another way would be 'help-time-word'. Cf. German 'Hilfszeitwort (Verb is 'Tunwort', 'Tätigkeitswort', 'Tuwort', 'Zeitwort'), Frysk Helptiidwurd, Icelandic Hjálparsögn, Dutch Hulpwerkwoord.

Modal Auxiliary Verb (modal

Stanmund: Most homeborn English speaker have little need to learn this terminology.
However they are useful when teaching English to other people. Sometimes we can use the term "helping" verb but if teaching romance language speakers "auxiliary" is more intelligible. They are in the end just labels. I teach "nine" modal verbs in English - can, could, shall. should, will, would, may, might, and must. Once students have learnt the label "modal" it is easier to use than enumerating the list every time. So they are just technical terms for a particular purpose. "linking words" is often used instead of conjunctions. However the essence of the problem for students is to distinguish between a conjunction and a "linking" adverb like "however" and which starts a new sentence. Since students have often learnt "conjunction" in their own country and it is used in all the dictionaries, it would be a hard word to change. I don't teach the word pronoun, don't seem to need it

Aside: the "nine" modal verbs in English - can, could, shall. should, will, would, may, might, and must---are all Germanic!

I'm cathcing up...one at a time! ;-) Okay...

"If we attempt to transfer the word transfer to English we get "crossbear" (or a cross bear) or overbearing which already has a meaning..."

Transfer: L. trāns- (beyond, across, through, cross) + L. ferre (to bear, to carry).

Now, good English speakers will want to take 'cross, across' off the list, even though this word came from Latin-> Old Norse -> Old Irish-> Old English. Maybe we can bring O.E. rōd "cross" back. "Carry" is Latin so that out. There are already many words in English that can mean 'transfer':

* shift (to, over)
* bring (to, over)
* forward (to, over to)
* ferry (over, to)
* hand (to, over)
* haul, lug ( little more folksy)

"Property Transfer" (Latin all the way) = "Shifiting Trust" (Germanic all the way). Indeed, we can always bring some Old English words back into the mix, too, if one likes.

yes indeed these nine modal verbs are all Germanic. There are other structures that are modal in meaning like "have to" but these modal verbs do not have "s" on the 3rd person singular present. Maybe because originally they were past in form much like must was originally past subjunctive "muesste". Grammar terms like noun, verb, subject object would be really difficult to change given their widespread use, Some bright spark tried to introduce "present progressive" instead of "present continuous" and some textbooks use it to the confusion of student and teacher alike. Changing labels leads to confusion just like wrong labels on your suitcase lose your baggage at the airport.

Ængelfolc: Trust and transfer have two VERY different meanings when dealing with property. Trustee in hungarian is er, er, er, gondnok I think....

@jayles:

"Gondnok" is executor. "Megbízott" is trustee.

Why liken 'transfer' and 'trust'? Shouldn't you be looking at 'transfer' and 'shifting'? If you think 'trust' means something else, then there are others words in English:

For 'property': holdings, landholdings, land(s) & buildings, asf.

That yields "shifting land ownership", " moving land ownership", "landholdings ownership shift", asf.

"Shifting Land Trust" may still be okay, too, by putting 'land' in there. Englsih can do without 'transfer' and 'property' IMHO.

The only thing hard about switching the 'stæfcræft' names is getting them by all of the naysayers in Academia. Understanding would be much easier! Maybe folks would like and understand 'stæfcræft' a lot better. Ænglisc is well thought out and straightforward.

One can look to sister Germanic tongues for ways in which to make the new 'stæfcræft' words.

Subject ---> German 'Satzgegenstand', Dutch 'Onderwerp'.

Adjective ---> Danish 'Tillægsord', German 'Eigenschaftswort' (also 'Wiewort' for kids), Icelandic 'Lýsingarorð' (lit. description words), Nynorsk 'Eigenskapsord', Frysk Eigenskipswurden.

The German, Icelandic, Frysk, and Nynorsk all have the same basic meaning.

Adverb ---> Danish 'biord', German 'Umstandswort' (Nebenwort), Dutch 'bijwoord'.

I like the German since it is very clear. It literally means "circumstances, situation, happenstance word".

Again, Academia (somewhere) would have to get behind it. Start small...one word at a time.

Das war's für jetzt!

Ængelfolc: Yes indeed I misunderstood you. Trustee: actually my dictionary suggests ce'lvagyonkezeköje but I've never used it. Megbizhatatlan vagy! is useful when your partner is sleeping around.
Legal terms for property are quite specific in their meaning: real property (estate), chose-in-possession, chose-in-action, goods, chattels etc. Onc should not confuse or muddy the waters here. I think "handover" might be a good starting point for conveyancing.

However "bank transfer" ie internet banking is now a common usage, as is "transferor" transferee". The issue here is the latinate words have acquired specific collocations and usages, which would be hard to mimic.

@jayles:

You are right..."megbízott vagyonkezelője" is like an appointed trustee ("megbízott" meaning agent)...I think...

Ængelfolc: "Trustee" is a good illustration of how fraught tinkering with language can be.
I refer you to the relevant page in wikipedia which contains beautiful norman expressions such as "cestui qui trust" , and "feoffor to uses".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust_(law)
Quite what equals what in hungarian depends on which legal system is under discussion, common law or roman law. But definitely no "one size fits all" solution here.
As to "subject" in its grammatical meaning I was going to suggest "do-er" for subject, "do-ee" for object and "doing-word" for verb, which might be clearer. One of the claims of Anglish is that it would be clearer, and the meaning could be deduced from the constituent parts. If this is NOT the case there is no good reason to change. So for example "underwarp" "undercast" "underthrown" are no more intelligible than "subject" so why changel? However "wordstock" is readily deduced than "vocabulary" or "lexis", so a change has some merit. In short one could never convince "academia" unless there is some definite long-term benefit.
Adjective and adverb are sometimes described as "noun modifier" and "verb modifier" respecitively in textbooks. Not that this helps the studen much!

'doing word' or doingword has far more gettaness than 'verb' I believe grammar is a field where Anglish can and should eathly set forth it's worthiness.

I don't rightly get the full meaning of 'modifer' but if going on nowaday meaning of the 'were' bit of 'werewolf' would something like 'were-doingword' work for 'verb modifier'