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cathyem

Joined: November 5, 2011
Comments posted: 6
Votes received: 37

I'm an oldster who was raised in the Catholic school system and had "proper English" pounded into my brain. I am often irritated by the degradation of our language. When we speak, we are communicating more than just words and our use of the language conveys more than just our random thoughts. I wish the youngsters nowadays would remember that when they open their mouths. Yeah, I DO sound like a grouchy old lady, but I'm truly not!

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Hairy Scot,
I forgot to thank you for your support. It is appreciated.

cathyem December 8, 2011, 6:46pm

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By the way, people in civilized countries all over the world, every day, are being judged by the way they speak.
For instance, in the USA, the "hillbilly folk" are looked at askance. In London, it's the Cockneys. That was the whole basis of Shaw's "Pygmalion". Eliza needed to learn proper English grammar and pronunciation to pass for the educated upper class.
Why resort to a "language" that makes you sound lower class and uneducated? Why not learn proper English and go further in life?
To paraphrase Mark Twain, it is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are an uneducated fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

cathyem December 8, 2011, 6:43pm

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"So, there you have it: making unsupportable assertions, claiming that the language is in decline (whatever that means), and, by default, suggesting that your language choices are superior to those of others, all adds up to drivel in my book."

I am glad I do not own a copy of your book.

We will just have to disagree because you don't seem to believe the sources I quoted for you. My assertions are not unsupported, as seen by the quotes I listed.

My "unorthodox usage" was NOT unorthodox, as you well know. It was an error, pure and simple. Thank you for pointing it out. If there was an "edit" feature, I would rectify it. Yes, I am human. I make mistakes, just like you.

As for ebonics, if you DON'T think it's an "inferior form of English", then we obviously have nothing to discuss.

cathyem December 8, 2011, 6:01pm

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So sorry you believe it to be "drivel". Did you read my prior posts?

"I don't own a copy of the OED, but here's what I found online at grammarphobia.com:
"
The verb “enamor,” according to the Oxford English Dictionary, means “to inspire or inflame with love.”

The adjective “enamored,” the OED says, means “full of the passion of love” or simply “in love.” In a weaker sense, “enamored” can mean charmed or fascinated.

“To be enamored,” the dictionary adds, is “to be in love.” And in this sense, “enamored” isn’t the adjective but a passive form of the verb.

This passive form, the OED says, has historically been used with the prepositions “of,” “on,” “upon,” and “with.”

But constructions using “on” and “upon” are now obsolete. Today, the OED says, we use either “enamored of” or, less commonly, “enamored with.”"

As I stated, I don't own a copy of the OED, and, when I checked their website, it is by subscription only, with no search feature free to the public. That is why I quoted the source I found on grammarphobia.com.
The OED is but one source. My Webster's New World Dictionary (Third College Edition, 1988) states that "enamored of" is the only correct usage.

M-W.com does NOT record all three:
"en·am·or eden·am·or·ing
Definition of ENAMOR
transitive verb
1
: to inflame with love —usually used in the passive with of
2
: to cause to feel a strong or excessive interest or fascination —usually used in the passive with of or with <baseball fans enamored of statistics>"

As for my use of the word devolve, it is perfectly legitimate and portrays exactly what I feel, therefore is the perfect word to use:

M-W.com de·volved de·volv·ing
Definition of DEVOLVE
transitive verb
: to pass on (as responsibility, rights, or powers) from one person or entity to another <devolving to western Europe full responsibility for its own defense — Christopher Lane>
intransitive verb
1
a : to pass by transmission or succession <the estate devolved on a distant cousin> b : to fall or be passed usually as a responsibility or obligation <the responsibility for breadwinning has devolved increasingly upon women — Barbara Ehrenreich>
2
: to come by or as if by flowing down <his allegedly subversive campaigns…devolve from his belief in basic American rights — Frank Deford>
3
: to degenerate through a gradual change or evolution <where order devolves into chaos — Johns Hopkins Magazine>

I am truly sorry you feel such anger for someone who cherishes the English language and does not want to see it bastardized further.

ebonics, anyone?

cathyem December 8, 2011, 5:07pm

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Ah, porsche...

If Jill enamors Jack, then Jack is enamored OF Jill.

The bastardization of the English language is a velvet slide. I am old enough that I remember when people were proud of the fact that they spoke correctly. Now, even our news media "stars" are becoming part of the problem since they reach a mass audience and when they speak incorrectly, they make it seem legitimate.

The bottom line is that, up until about 1980 or so, "enamored OF" was the ONLY correct usage. Now, people have gotten sloppy with their speech and enamored "with" and "by" are taking over.

It's sad, really, to watch a language devolve.

cathyem December 7, 2011, 8:36pm

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Thank you for your kind responses. I actually should have stated that the search I did was of this site, not a google search, which is why I posed the question here.

I was educated in Catholic schools in the 50s and 60s, and the hickory ruler taught me well! Perfect grammar, spelling, punctuation and syntax was required at all times.

Quite a few "new words" are added to the dictionary each year, some of which I find rather painful. I'm really not trying to sound like a snob, but I also do not want to see the language devolve as it evolves.

There was a time when "of' was the only acceptable preposition to use with "enamored".

I still have the Webster's from my late grammar school years (1959 ed.) and it lists no pronoun at all. I have a Webster's New World, Third Collegiate Edition (1988 ed.) and it lists "of" ONLY... no "with" and no "by". Nowadays, since so many people have used "with" incorrectly, the dictionaries of the internet list "enamored with" as secondary, but also now correct. Nowhere have I seen "enamored by" as correct, thankfully.

@AnWulf, I don't own a copy of the OED, but here's what I found online at grammarphobia.com:
"
The verb “enamor,” according to the Oxford English Dictionary, means “to inspire or inflame with love.”

The adjective “enamored,” the OED says, means “full of the passion of love” or simply “in love.” In a weaker sense, “enamored” can mean charmed or fascinated.

“To be enamored,” the dictionary adds, is “to be in love.” And in this sense, “enamored” isn’t the adjective but a passive form of the verb.

This passive form, the OED says, has historically been used with the prepositions “of,” “on,” “upon,” and “with.”

But constructions using “on” and “upon” are now obsolete. Today, the OED says, we use either “enamored of” or, less commonly, “enamored with.”"

So, I'm not sure where you are quoting from, but OED does not apparently list "by" as a proper preposition with enamored in any internet sources I can find.

I guess it just bothers me that people are becoming more sloppy with the language. If I hear "Bob gave that to John and I" one more time, I swear I'll scream! And the more people use it, the more "correct" it becomes. Soon, "I" will be used for both the nominative case and the objective case and considered a correct, but secondary, use. I am enamored of proper usage!

cathyem November 8, 2011, 4:34pm

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