Proofreading Service - Pain in the English
Proofreading Service - Pain in the English

Your Pain Is Our Pleasure

24-Hour Proofreading Service—We proofread your Google Docs or Microsoft Word files. We hate grammatical errors with a passion. Learn More

Proofreading Service - Pain in the English
Proofreading Service - Pain in the English

Your Pain Is Our Pleasure

24-Hour Proofreading Service—We proofread your Google Docs or Microsoft Word files. We hate grammatical errors with a passion. Learn More

Username

Warsaw Will

Member Since

December 3, 2010

Total number of comments

1371

Total number of votes received

2083

Bio

I'm a TEFL teacher working in Poland. I have a blog - Random Idea English - where I do some grammar stuff for advanced students and have the occasional rant against pedantry.

Latest Comments

Chary

  • July 15, 2013, 11:50am

A troll that has an orange traffic light warning from Web of Trust, what's more (it's a games site).

Capitalization of dog breeds

  • July 14, 2013, 4:34am

I don't claim to be any expert on dog breeds, but judging by what I've seen at the biggest dog-related websites,yes. Why not try a bit of Googling to check Here's the relevant page (on gundogs) at the Kennel Club. Click on a breed for more details.

http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/breed/Default.aspx?group=GDGS.

Capitalization of dog breeds

  • July 13, 2013, 7:16pm

On their website, the Kennel Club (the authority in Britain), capitalise everything - Golden Labrador, German Shepherd, Border Collie, Standard Poodle etc., as do Wikipedia, dogbreedinfo.com, dogtime.com and vetstreet.com.

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/breedstandards

If you're just describing somebody's dog, lower case is probably better - "They've got a poodle", but if you're describing the breeds themselves, I imagine capitals are the way to do it. That's certainly what a little Googling would suggest.

Sorry to hear of your problems. All the best.

@Brittany - Sorry if I overreacted a bit. I probably read too much into "our (American) normal way".

Some people (and I include Brits here) sometimes forget that the English-speaking world stretches far beyond their particular borders. For example what the Chicago Manual of Style (see comment above) says really only affects those who accept it as the norm. Which isn't even the whole of the US, as many publishers follow AP style instead. Both of which are simply style books in any case, and neither of which carry much weight in my part of the world.

As far as writing dates in the UK, I think Mr Pepperpot said it all really. And when using the short form in Europe, this is more than just personal choice: I had to do some stuff in the bank yesterday, dating the forms 12/07/2013. If I'd dated them 07/12/2013, the bank would have made me change them all.

Another silly little difference, for example, is that we Brits say "two thousand and twelve" (although actually I think after the Olympics, most people now say "twenty twelve", but I'm old fashioned). I don't think Americans use "and" before tens like this - "Three hundred and thirty thousand, four hundred and twenty".

But I'm still a bit puzzled by the question. I think koam is the only commenter who has addressed the point that the date is being used as an adjective here. You can find racecards on the web with the day's runners for a particular (horse) race meeting in Britain or Ireland, and one of the biggest UK sites - "Sporting Life" lists "Mon July 15 2013 Racecards", but I don't really think it's being used here as an adjective - just the date followed by the noun. But Nancy talks of "the August 1 card", where the date is definitely being used as an adjective, which might make the use of the ordinal more appropriate. Just a thought.

Which leaves me with one more query - in the original question, Nancy says "I know July 23rd, 2011 is incorrect" - and I can't understand why. Nor, apparently, would Scientific American, which has a blog post titled - "Bora’s Picks (July 12th, 2013)". So where might this strange idea come from? (Don't tell me! The Chicago Manual of Style?)

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/incubator/2013/07/12/boras-picks-july-12th-2013/

Come to think of it, forgive a Brit's ignorance, but what is an "August 1(st) card" anyway? Is it something to do with horse racing?

@Brittany - It's just a different logic. For me the way you don't like is "normal". I don't really see why the month has to be the focus and why putting it first should be any more logical than putting the day first, but then I simply like what I'm used to.

Although I'd normally write "31st December 2012", I have no problem with "December 31st 2012", but I just can't get my head round "12/31/2013" - to me that's: Medium/Short/Long - what's that all about? No logic at all! (Which is what my Polish friends also say). But 31/12/2012 is totally logical (for me and them) - Day/Month/Year = Short/Medium/Long.

"December thirty first two thousand twelve" may be the way you say it out loud, but that doesn't mean that is how all the rest of the English speaking world say it. I'm pretty sure that on the BBC they say "And here is the news for Saturday the thirty first of December, two thousand and twelve" or some such. And I can see no reason at all why "to put the day before the month is illogical".

Here's a dateline from today's NYT - Friday, July 12, 2013 (your "normal"), but here's another, from the Guardian (UK - my "normal") - Friday 12 July 2013, and from The Independent (UK) - Friday 12 July 2013. It seems that British papers aren't consistent here, though, as the Times has July 13 2013, as does the Financial Times. When it comes to writing the date in numbers, however, all Brits use the Day/Month/Year system.

And so does the the rest of Europe -
13.07.2013 (Gazeta Wyborcza, Poland)
Mis à jour le 12.07.2013 à 22h19 (Le Monde, France)
13. Jul. 2013 (Die Welt, Germany)
Madrid 12 JUL 2013 - 22:12 CET (El país, Spain)
12 luglio 2013 (La Repubblica, Italy)

I'm not really saying that the system I, Pepperpot and one or two others on this thread are used to is any more logical than yours, but it certainly isn't any less, just different. You say tomatoes and I say tomatoes, etc.

Fora vs Forums

  • July 11, 2013, 3:00pm

As someone said way back in this thread, usage is the key,and you just have to take each word separately. No one would say musea, but on the other hand, not many would say crisises either. Some go only one way, some go only the other, with others we have a choice, including, I thought, referendum - ums / -a. For some strange reason I prefer referenda, but I've just discovered that referendum has no plural in Latin, so even that is a false assumption:

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=referendum&searchmode=none

Apparently something similar has happened with octupi, which is not in fact the Latin plural, but an assumed Latin plural on the basis of other Latin plurals; the 'true' Latin plural is in fact the rarely used 'octopodes'.

Wikipedia has a useful list of plurals from foreign words:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_plurals#Irregular_plurals_from_Latin_and_Greek

Interestingly, the same word can also have two different plurals depending on context. Wikipedia quotes this example: "a radio or radar engineer works with antennas, but an entomologist deals with antennae".

@Aeomer - sorry to be a bit obtuse, but could you explain?

Plural of Yes

  • July 11, 2013, 6:30am

@Chris B - Good one! That took me a second or two to work out - at my school we got dressed up as soldiers twice a week and did drill, and I was getting confused with "Eyes right", but I take it you're talking about voting in the House of Commons.

I have a similar confession - for years I had come across the the past form "misled" in books, but wasn't aware of having heard it. Having read it lots of times, I knew exactly what it meant, but always assumed it was the past of that well-known verb - to misle. It was only when I heard it on the radio one day that I realised my mistake. What an idiot I felt! But I've since discovered that I'm not the only one to have made that particular mistake.

Questions

When “one of” many things is itself plural November 27, 2011
You’ve got another think/thing coming September 29, 2012
Fit as a butcher’s dog May 22, 2013
“reach out” May 25, 2013
Tell About October 18, 2013
tonne vs ton January 25, 2014
apostrophe with expressions of distance or time February 2, 2014
Natural as an adverb April 13, 2014
fewer / less May 3, 2014
Opposition to “pretty” March 7, 2015