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February 21, 2013
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@ BJ - it's worth a great deal - so thank you.
I agree that a key question is what is deemed 'standard', and as you say 'what sounds natural'. Both of which can be very subjective.
I know I'm still banging on about 'as of', but your definition:
"As of", "as at", "as from" are all to me normal business-speak like "with effect from".
doesn't sit well with me (admittedly maybe only me!) when I apply this to, say,financial accounts (BrE):
- the financial consolidated statements give a true and fair view of the financial position of the company as at 6 April 2011
Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable replacing 'as at' with 'with effect from' (and thus or 'as of'), because I feel that it would suggest a different meaning.
But perhaps I am imagining this BrE nuance in meaning..?
@ Warsaw will - Ouch - I feel suitably chastised! But indeed appreciate the belated softening of tone ;-)
Although I see and agree with most your points, I still feel that BJ's example:
- I'm quitting as of Friday
appears to contradict the definition of usage he specifically gave:
- I believe that 'as of' means 'from this day on'
Personally, I can’t see how 'quitting' can carry any sense of ‘from this day on’… but evidently I may be one of very few of that mind.
As to one of your examples:
- So Breech ended the contract, as of June 30" - (Time Magazine 21 July 1947)
In the legal world, 'as of' can carry a particular meaning: the 'as of' date is when something is considered to take effect, which could differ from the date the event actually occurred. This could possibly be the reason for some ‘as of’ uses of this ilk, and it could also explain other uses in commercial English that I’m not sure I would say are ‘standard' in a business context.
Either way, I apologise for the arrogance of my tone in my initial post- it was not intended. But in my feeble defence, I do feel that these points merit some consideration, albeit limited for ‘informal’ usage, and I will merely add that I am under the influence of working exclusively with foreign lawyers.
Thank you for your comprehensive explanation Warsaw will - as a newcomer to the world of blog commenting, I’ll certainly think/read things through more fully before bowling in with my off-the-cuff two-penneth worth.
@ Warsaw Will - point noted, but I would argue that:
a) I wouldn't be surprised if many of those entries were AmE as opposed to BrE (or Brits under the AmE influence ;-))
b) proofread/edited material isn't always a guarantee of correct English (I've seen terrible printed material that has presumably been edited/proofed)
c) If indeed this is an idiomatic usage, it doesn't make it the 'norm', and therefore the use of this example in the context above could mislead/confuses English learners
But that's just my two-penneth worth.
Legal writing guru Bryan Garner et al strongly recommend not using 'as of' to describe a 'snapshot' of a situation. I'd be interested if any British grammar gurus have else to say.
Don't wish to be anal, but I would say that BJ's example "I'm quitting as of Friday" was a bit off point.
I'm quitting on FridayorAs of Friday I will no longer be working for 'XYZ Ltd'
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