Word in question: Conversate

Adrian is even more a descriptivist than me. Which I applaud. Perhaps one day I will catch up.

Meantime, here is an interesting take on the state of the dictionary:

http://www.ted.com/talks/erin_mckean_redefines_...

4 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

porsche, regarding "orientate", in England, it is not even "controversial"; it's probably the norm, and is certainly, as Vatta says, utterly unremarkable. Your sidewalk has a curb and my pavement has a kerb; each is correct in one country and odd in the other.

2 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

Cecily, perhaps I wasn't clear or you may have misunderstood. Orientate might be unremarkable in the UK, but that wasn't my point. Orientate is not unremarkable everywhere. Orient is.

0 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

A little history of "orientate."

"Orient" was borrowed from French around 1740. As a verb, originally it meant " to cause to face or point toward the east; specifically: to build (a church or temple) with the longitudinal axis pointing eastward and the chief altar at the eastern end" (Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary). Over time–and not much time–it came to mean "to set or arrange in any determinate position especially in relation to the points of the compass" (M-W again). I doubt that in the century or so before the emergence of "orientate" the ecclesiastical connotation was entirely lost.

And "orientate" did emerge. M-W Online dates it to 1848. It is likely a back-formation from "orientation," which M-W puts at 1839. Objection to "orientate," according to Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of English Usage, began in 1945. I suspect that interaction between Yanks and Brits during WWII may have been the cause.

M-W lists and then summarily dismisses all criticisms of "orientate" but one: it is longer than "orient" by a syllable. And to this quibble they give short shrift. They cite several authors, most British, who have used "orientate," including W. H. Auden, Aldous Huxley, Tennessee Williams, and one Robert Morely, who probably thought he was being clever when he wrote: "I don't want to suggest that Chinamen are less aesthetically orientated than I." (He wrote that as recently as 1974, making him a grammatically-challenged troglodyte.)

So while "orientate" may be "not unremarkable everywhere" (a pretty phrase), it is well established and not incorrect.

3 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

Me,
Adrian claimed to be a student of linguistics, not of grammatology. Give them a break. ;)

3 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

Lisa, a study of grammatology isn't required to use proper grammar. Only of study of grammar is, and a basic one at that.

4 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

"Conversate" is an awkward word. It sounds contrived. I think we already have this area covered with converse and conversation. Another code word by people who like to think of themselves as "cool"...

I read the following from the Online Etymology Dictionary, "by 2000, apparently a back-formation from conversation or an elaboration of converse. According to some, from black Amer.Eng."

5 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

orient is where Chinese people come from.

5 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

'Conversate' sounds to me like it should mean 'one who is conversational', a chatty or charming person: "He was conversate and entertaining at dinner, a most erudite fellow."

But then I only encountered the word for the first time today in a list of detested office-speak, googled it and now I'm here.

2 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

conversate -- Interesting; I thought it meant the act of conversation, sort of a noun; but looked it up to be sure. It is a word I hear often, but never used myself and started to use it in a letter and wanted to make sure I was using it correctly and came across this site. I guess it is like: irregardless; nauseous; worser; complimentary and complementary; acute and chronic; alternative and alternate; flout and flaunt; dissect and bisect; hung and hanged; peruse; and various other terms that are understood between English speaking people in context and stay confused with regards to their correct usage. I think I had better be safe and not use "conversate" in my letter.

3 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

searching for an answer and find none -
I guess it's like aint which is now a word
language changes - speaking of which I sure would like to get the new unabridged cheaply. My paper dictionary is a few years old. I picked it up at a university but recently I haven't seen any unabridged.
barnes and nobel is overpriced and doesn't even have what I want
neither does amazon.

0 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

Why I still need a grammar check: "...those who use it risk being seen..."

My bad!

0 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

@ me @ April 19, 2010 at 6:52 pm:

It's even funnier that every one of your four sentences is incomplete.

1 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

I guess it's not a word, but most of our words now didn't used to be words. Words and metaphors get added to languages everyday because languages are living. IMO, language purists etc need to calm down, get over themselves, and accept it.

haha and I didn't think Adrian's sentence was a run on at all.

3 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

@ Moron Detector
What is even funnier is that is seems you missed the sarcasm in that post... or maybe I've missed it in yours. C'est la vie.

As for using conversate... use it. Don't use it. The prior makes you look unintelligent. The latter doesn't make you look smart, but it doesn't make you look stupid either. The only time I could see using it would be as a joke or to make something rhyme in a poem or song... or maybe both. :)

using conversate to
try and bait you
just you wait to
retaliate you
can't berate who
can educate you
and irritate too
before it's too late to
it's half past eight foo'

Marshall Mathers, eat your heart out.

4 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

Several things bother me, and I WILL say whats wrong or right, don't be so lily livered!! Conversate is something ignorant people ONLY say, and I mean really stupid people, I will NEVER USE IT. Converse, conversation okay?? People I know LAUGH when they see people on Judge Judy using that word, and the only time I EVER hear it is on some stupid show like that.
Orientate (BLAGH !!!) Are we going to change the word jewelry to 'bling' now that it is so commonly used.
MY ULTIMATE PET PEEVE. The misuse of the word MYSELF and the abandonment of the words YOU and I because people think it sounds sophisticated and are also too stupid to figure out which word is correct, Me or I .... If someone asks me 'who went to the store' I might say ' I went by myself ' (not sure why though) But no way am I going to say MYSELF as a response.

4 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

I would not use the word "conversate," (mainly because the "-ate" is redundant), but I would not judge someone who does as stupid or sloppy or pretentious. People are different, and we need to learn to live with that. Let the person who is without sin cast the first stone.

2 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

Let me conversate
Better yet regulate

Yall ain't got no life... A word purist? Are you freaking kidding me... That's how low your life is? Wah wah wah i will not use it... Yall are ignorant. GET A LIFE PEOPLE & STOP MAKING IT TO BE MORE THAN IT IS!!! Yall acting like it's the end of the world if someone uses the word "Conversate"

Let me use it in a sentence for yall so yall know what it is and means:

We need to "conversate" so we can clear the air between this miscommunication.

I was just "conversating" with the homie around the corner.

To have a conversation with someone(s)

5 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

After all a word became or becomes a word via the utterance of and by its subsequent usage wether common or not. If its meaning is understood and indeed conveyed the message, by definition it is a word.

2 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

When someone claims it isn't a word, they mean it's not a proper word, much like irregardless is not a proper word. And yet, irregardless is now included in most dictionaries with the disclaimer that it is a word that, due to repeated misuse, has now been acknowledged to mean "without regard" even though it literally means "without without regard." Double negative anyone?

Conversate is a slang word. Is it a word? Sure. It's slang for converse. It's unnecessary, and makes you sound like you don't know how to speak, but that doesn't mean it's not a word, only a slang word.

3 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

and what about "conversating"?the use of this word is more frequent nowadays, ..im not a language student,i dont study language like you all do..but from my point of view, this word means talking+socialising..which is way better than just talking or socialising used on its own..i think 'conversating' will replace 'talking' soon.. =)

0 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

Ain't has actually been a word since before the 17th century (and used to be considered a proper contraction until the elite decided it wasn't.)
Although I hate the word conversate with enough usage not only does it become descriptive, eventually it becomes proper English.
Language is an ever-evolving thing.

2 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

Conversate is not a word. I typed the word conversate and the squiggly lines appeared underneath the word which indicates that it is indeed incorrect. It was here in the U.S. that I first heard that word being used and I was confused as to whether it was correct. So far, everyone that i have asked has said it is incorrect (well, from my country).

I totally agree with Michelle.

2 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

Wow, I was looking for some information on the word conversate when I came across this website. Your comments are very helpful, thank you.
Here's another question from the city. What is the word to describe a person who sets himself or herself above others simply by the use of their vocabulary?

0 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

"My tattoo artist don't like to conversate... Shiiii she tattin' my baby mommas name on my neck... And she ain't friendly." the word sounds overdone and slightly like a pseudo-intellectual. What happened to effective language?

0 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

"My tattoo artist don't like to conversate... Shiiii she tattin' my baby mommas name on my neck... And she ain't friendly." the word sounds overdone and slightly like a pseudo-intellectual. What happened to effective language?

0 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

What makes me upset about this particular conversation is the fact that being a back formation of converse or not anyone who generally hears this word placed in a sentence can figure out its meaning by simply listening to the text. And whether you choose to believe or not that conversate is a word , you can spell it. And by having a conversation filled with such passion involving both the pro and con it only furthers suggest that everyone knows it is a word. I'm trying to understand why is such an advanced civilization people are still arguing over what word should be used anyway ? I believe our language is big enough to support ten different back formations for converse or did our language die while I was texting this comment? Stupidity and Ignorance should not be words that flow off of any sensible and intelligent human flesh pallet due to a formation of a sentence nor a spoken word. Maybe instead of trying to kill something that already exist we can let language move forward.

1 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

all sounds like ebonics to me, if that`s even a real word.another one I`ve heard is interpretate. A shorten version interpretation. it`s bastardizing the language.dats alls I hads to conversate ;)

4 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

To Michelle,

Perfectly said.

0 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

These days, the English language is going to pot for exactly the reasons Dave is stating. It's fine to bastardize an English word, because it's the in thing, or a fad, and everyone is doing it.

1 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

CitySpeak, I didn't understand your question: "What is the word to describe a person who sets himself or herself above others simply by the use of their vocabulary?"

Do you mean intentionally, like a snob? Or someone who simply outshines others by speaking correctly?

2 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

CitySpeak, articulate, well versed.

2 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

ok, I am a little late on this conversation but this is quite interesting. I still believe ain't ain't a word and conversate is some weird slang work someone intended to mean converse and said it wrong one day and it stuck. Same as irregardless. To me it makes one sound uneducated. I am not saying I am right but I feel these words are all wrong.

1 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

It is also often claimed that a ‘word’ is not a ‘word’ (or is not ‘English’) unless it is in ‘the dictionary’. This may be acceptable logic for the purposes of word games, but not outside those limits. … OED preface, 2000 http://www.oed.com/public/oed3preface

As it so happens, the word is in the wordbook:

dictionary.com:
con·ver·sate  [kon-ver-seyt] Show IPA
verb (used without object), con·ver·sat·ed, con·ver·sat·ing. Nonstandard except in some dialects .
to have a conversation; converse.

M-W:
Definition of CONVERSATE
intransitive verb
nonstandard
: converse 2a
Origin of CONVERSATE
back-formation from conversation
First Known Use: 1973

Wiktionary:
Etymology
Back-formation from conversation.
conversate (third-person singular simple present conversates, present participle conversating, simple past and past participle conversated)
(African American Vernacular) To converse, to have conversation.

---
It is a word ... not one that I would use, but it does exist (as does ain't). But, for that matter, I don't use the word converse either ... I use the word TALK!

1 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

And AnWulf, usually, those who make such a claim don't fully appreciate the claim's ambiguity. More often, they mean the particular collegiate dictionary they have on their particular shelf, never even realizeng that it may differ from others and changes daily, or even imagining that the OED is up to, what, twenty volumes now, I think.

0 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

Loosing **Losing... If your are critiquing grammar and language, please proof read your post. lol jk, I just really hate this mistake.

0 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

@DaniS ... If you're referring to this from douglas.bryrant: Some say it started when Webster's Third included the word "ain't," loosing the hounds of criticism from the prescriptive crowd.

Then loosing is correct.

From the OED: verb [ with obj. ]
set free; release: the hounds have been loosed.

3 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

Conversate sounds ignorant. It's either conversing or talking. We were "conversating" sounds stupid but most people don't say "We were conversing..." but they do say "We were talking..." Why not just say WE WERE TALKING?

U/Ur drives me nuts. I know people who write out every other word in the English language except for you and your. Why?

Definitely has no a in it and losing only has one o.

Most people will say or write "my bad" when the term comes from saying "Am I bad" rapidly and should be written as 'mi bad. But most people have no clue that it's not literally "my bad." I can forgive that one but not all the above.

It's not that conversate is so horrible but it's just another example of people accepting idiocy as "whatever."

1 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

Suzanne, I always thought that "my bad" came from basketball, where the player committing a foul has to raise his/her hand, thus publically accepting guilt. [As an aside, my spell checker is upset with "publically" but "publicly" looks wrong looks wrong to me. That, however, if for another page.]

"My bad" therefore means "my mistake". Or is that just my bad?

1 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

Conversate does not appear in the OED, or Chambers, or Collins.
Does not even appear in Wordweb.
That would suggest it ain't a word!

3 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

It is in M-W: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conve...

It is a word ... not one that I would note, but it is a word.

1 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

@Suzanne ... I agree with yu that noting talk is better than converse or conversate.

I'll disagree with yu about u or yu ... The 'ou' diphthong for the u/oo sound is a holdover from Norman-French scribes and should (shood?) be gotten rid of for this sound.

Definitely should lose the second e since the i before it is short. It would be better as 'definit' and 'definitly'.

my bad
North American informal used to acknowledge responsibility for a mistake:
Sorry I lost your CD. It’s my bad
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/bad

Altho today's noting of it is said to hav started in basketball pickup games, we do find that Shakespeare noted the phrase with something like today's meaning, in his Sonnet 112:

Your love and pity doth the impression fill
Which vulgar scandal stamp'd upon my brow;
For what care I who calls me well or ill,
So you o'er-green my bad, my good allow?

0 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

@AnWulf
There is an interesting and amusing entry in the Urban Dictionary
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=...
which contains some amusing points, but does identify the source of the word.

0 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

@AnWulf
Those of us who hold that the OED is the ultimate authority on the English Language would have to disagree on "conversate" being a word.
However, since "motherfucker" appears in those hallowed pages, I have no doubt that we shall eventually find "conversate" there too.
Probably with the example:- "Yo, I just needs to conversate witcha!"

2 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

Yawn, Oh please do excuse me...Converse/conversate. My mother is 83 years old and has always used the word conversate. The fact is that most of the English language is full of these words that everyday ordinary folk use while conversing and it is the 'Norm' to them and those with enough intelligence will go with the flow to get the gist of the conversation being had rather than to point it out as in-proper and waist precious time debating it. All language is valuable. Yes we have a standard English that sets the bench mark so to speak, but every region of England while being taught a standard form, generally use a form that is standard to their region. All this debating over something not so important sounds like snobbery.

2 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

"conversate" is not a word and it is so irritating that people who are afraid to admit they are wrong will defend it.It makes ppl sound ignorant.Black ppl, others make fun of you for using it.I have only heard blacks and hispanics use it.I am not saying they are the only ones that do.Just because many ppl use it doesn't mean it's ok to speak like an idiot.So stop using it, you sound uneducated.

2 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

Some of you are so exceedingly racist, elitist, and self-centered. Because you only hear such things in certain context that is the only possible way it has been used? Really? As a white male living in the West this is a word that has been and will be used. You obnoxious elitists.

As an aside, we should all listen to Lilian. Her message is clear, concise, and exactly appropriate for those who get so riled up over the word conversate.

0 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

OH DEAR!

So English is to be just like Aussie Rules Football?

Rule 1: There are no rules.
Rule 2: See Rule 1.

1 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

@Hairy Scot and Perfect Pedant - all the dictionaries you mentioned are British and this seems to be an American phenomenon, so I'm not sure what you're proving. Many dictionaries do not include the excellent Scottish word 'outwith', but that doesn't mean it's not a word.

@Lilian - some people might find your repeated use of ppl and your hectoring tone equally as irritating a you find the use of 'conversate'.

As for the Urban Dictionary, it is often just a repository for one group of young people's prejudices against another group of young people, as in this bit of bile - "A word used by backwards, ignorant, illiterate inner city trash who mean to say 'converse'." - I gave up bothering with the Urban Dictionary a long time ago.

Dictionary.com has a rather more measured and intelligent discussion here - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/conversate

0 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

All supporters of "whatever words we use are okay", close your eyes, open your arms and embrace "Idiocracy". The realization of this movie is just around the corner. If you have not seen it, you have missed out on a prophetic image of where we are headed. In my opinion, there is nothing to be gained through intellectual and verbal laziness and plenty to be gained by at least attempting to exercise discipline in both thought and speech. It may be a losing battle, but if it pushes back the inevitable for just a few years, it is worth it in my opinion. I heard "conversate" on the program "Tavis Smiley" (by the moderator) the other day. It was a sad day for me personally. I guess I needs to be chillin cause my coversating wit you all like I laid out above makes me sound likin I'm pretentious or judginmental or somfin. See I kin make mah point anyways sos It must be kerect 'n proper.

4 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

Mayne their aint nothin wrong with conversate! I use it regularly, like this: i didnt not conversate with youre sister last nite, i just maid out with her.

:)

4 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

How do u get from conversate ..to orientate ..to precipitate,....conversate is a newly 'made up' word redneck hillbilly jive talk

1 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

I have never heard of the word conversate until my boss used it (several times) at a meeting. I was confused and assumed he meant "converse". Conversate is as pleasant a word as "ain't".

0 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

These comments have left me conversated.

0 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

Tom in TX: <i>mea culpa</i>

0 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

Conversate is not a word! It is slang/ebonics for the ignorant percentage of our population and I will never use or accept it. Our language is constantly being amended to accomodate the uneducated and I will never compromise because I know how proper English is written and spoken.

3 votes Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

I have several scholars for friends who use the word conversate outside of work . If any of you called them ignorant or uneducated they would pull out their proper grammar to prove how uneducated you are.
I appreciate them because even though they hold a PHD they don't look down on people. They are down to Earth people when they worked hard to have the right to act stuck up and snobbish.
People should be more like them something as small as a word or slang shouldn't make people that upset. There are bigger issues in life . Get over it.

0 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

@smitty

No one cares.

1 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

If there are bigger issues then why waste your time responding?

1 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

From several commenters - "conversate is not a word" - so how are we discussing it? - or "it is not a word; it is slang/ebonics". If slang and dialects don't have words, what on earth do they have? Is the F-word not in fact a word then. If I say "I can't be arsed to get out of effing bed today" - what are "arsed" and 'effing', as being slang they can't possibly be words. Apparently.

There seems to be rather a lot of snobbery (and not a little ignorance of how language works) in some of these comments. You'd certainly never hear anything like this from somebody who studies language, i.e. a linguist. What is that makes some people "get off" on criticising other people's language, I wonder?

0 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

Essentially, when enough ignorant people all start using a wrong word, it becomes an accepted word. Our future is fucked.

0 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse

@FD - What right have you to call other people ignorant? You are obviously not an expert on language, as anybody who classes others as "ignorant" simply because they speak differently is only displaying their own ignorance of how language and dialects work. And you're obviously not an expert on futurology, as changes in the way people speak have not the slightest influence on our future.

One thing, I bet that those who say "conversate" don't make fatuous and snobbish remarks like these about other people's language the way you do. I'm afraid you say more about yourself than about them.

0 vote Vote!  •  URL to this comment  •  Report Abuse