Plural of name ending in Y
If I want to say the Murphys meaning Mr. and Mrs. Murphy, is it “Murphies” or Murphy’s. I’m not using it possessively, just referring to both of them such as “The Murphy’s are a nice couple.
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Rodney (unregistered)
April 1, 2005, 10:50am
When a family name (a proper noun) is pluralized, we almost always simply add an "s." So we go to visit the Smiths, the Kennedys, the Grays, etc.When a family name ends in s, x, ch, sh, or z, however, we form the plural by added -es, as in the Marches, the Joneses, the Maddoxes, the Bushes, the Rodriguezes. Do not form a family name plural by using an apostrophe; that device is reserved for creating possessive forms.
taken from - http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/plurals.htm
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Anonymous (unregistered)
June 15, 2007, 6:38am
the rule has always been that the plural form of a noun ending in 'y', whether it's a name or not, will depend on whether there is a vowel or a consonant before the 'y'.
so, for example, the plural of a word like 'boy' is 'boys' because it's a vowel 'o' before the 'y'. so if it's a vowel before the 'y' then the plural form will always end in 's'.
a word such as 'city' will change to 'cities' in the plural form because the letter before the 'y' is the consonant'. therefore, if it's a consonant before the 'y' then the plural form will always end in 'ies'.
it's exactly the same for proper nouns: it's one kennedy and two kennedies. one murphy, two murphies and so on simply because the letter before the final 'y' is a consonant in both cases.
'kennedys' is quite incorrect but widely seen, even in newspapers and publications that should know better.
a plural form of a noun never ends in 's, such as "the murphy's are nice people". that's plain wrong. an apostrophe before an 's' indicates a contraction of the name with the verb to be (ie, "murphy is here" becomes "murphy's here") or to show possession: eg, "that's murphy's car".
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jamesj06
October 25, 2007, 3:22am
Anonymous, interesting to see you're so unequivocal about what's 'right' and so convinced that others 'should know better'! But we won't go back to some controversy from the 1960s about whether linguists should 'describe' or 'prescribe'.
It's so true that the spelling rules say if 'y' is a full vowel (eg 'daisy') it will change to '-ies'; but if it's a semi-vowel (ie after another vowel, like in 'day') it adds an -s.
Just - even old prescriptive style guides and grammar books say family names are different! I've got one here from 1903 that says you just add an '-s'. Have you seriously ever seen anyone write or teach 'Kennedies' or 'the Bradies'?
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fortmonkeypants
October 19, 2009, 3:06pm
i have my language arts book right in front of me
it says: Murphys
and yes, it actually uses the name murphy in it's example
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IngisKahn (unregistered)
April 3, 2005, 11:31pm
Murphyes lol :)
The great equalizer: The Web Search
Murphys - 1,220,000 (98.9%)
Murphies - 13,500 (1.1%)
Murphyes - 23 (0.002%)
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jclaire_val
September 14, 2009, 9:36pm
THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF NOUNS ENDING IN Y
donkey
day
puppy
bakery
quality
butterfly
bunny
army
kitty
victory
baby
family
spy
canary
toy
monkey
fairy
comedy
lily
sky
key
candy
city
country
dairy
berry
way
library
copy
tray
community
pony
lady
Date: September 15, 2009
Time: 9:30am
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Jon (unregistered)
March 18, 2009, 11:02pm
You never use an apostrophe to pluralize, so it would be Konoskes.
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Anony Mouse
May 9, 2011, 11:36pm
"'kennedys' is quite incorrect"
For the record, so is not capitalizing proper nouns or the first words of sentences.
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jubm
August 24, 2010, 2:06am
What would you do when the proper noun has an even more irregular plural?
For example, would the Mouse family be the Mouses or the Mice?
Would the Sheep family by the Sheeps or the Sheep?
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grandroyal
February 22, 2011, 11:56pm
Anonymous is a dipshit. "Noone". LOLAIMLORRL
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Anonymous (unregistered)
November 3, 2007, 5:23am
i just gave the rule as i know it because noone had answered the original question grammatically.
and btw, james, "y" is not a semi-vowel in "day" it's a silent sound (the vowel sound in the syllable is carried by the preceding "a" and not the "y" which has no sound in this case). y as a semi-vowel behaves like a consonant as in words like "yes" and "yawn", usually when the y is the first letter in the word.
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brianopbroek
April 21, 2009, 5:34pm
You guys are hillarious.
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Parula
December 24, 2011, 4:19pm
Dear Anonymous,
I happen to be one of those newspaper people you referred to who "should know better."
In fact, I do know better than you do.
I have my AP Stylebook in front of me, which is the gold standard reference book of news writing, and it clearly states that while most words ending in 'y' follow the rule you quoted concerning consonants, proper names are an exception.
Here is what the AP book says:
"Most [proper names] ending in 'y' add 's' even if preceded by a consonant: 'the Duffys', 'the Kennedys', 'the two Kansas Citys'. Exceptions include 'Alleghenies' and 'Rockies.' For others, add 's': 'the Carters,' 'the McCoys,' 'the Mondales.'
Please do your research before denouncing professionals as doing something "quite incorrect."
Thank you.
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E (unregistered)
May 20, 2008, 10:28am
Murphys
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Murphys
August 2, 2012, 6:38am
Do not change the spelling of a person's name to make it plural. How do you differentiate between the plural form of the name "Murphy" and the plural form of the name "Murphie?" They are not both "Murphies." I would definitely go with "Murphys" for the plural of "Murphy."
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lamont2718
April 1, 2005, 2:49pm
Go for either Murphies or Murphys--both look a tad weird to me, but I'm positive that any use of the apostrophe in this situation is just plain wrong.
Also check out this closely-related thread: http://www.painintheenglish.com/post.asp?id=223
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dave
April 3, 2005, 2:37pm
Add -s or -es.
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Coral67
July 28, 2010, 8:42am
Nice site man Thanks
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Anonymous 2
July 22, 2012, 6:48am
There is a difference between correct and commonly-accepted writing. I write for a legal publication and my wife has written for the AP, and both of our employers emphasize(d) that we write for the masses, ie., for a fifth-grade education level (this was more appalling to me years ago, but it fails to amaze me now). Therefore, I use the commonly-accepted form, "Murphys," in writing for my employer. The great writers in literature would use the correct "Murphies."
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guz
September 5, 2012, 3:47pm
Chicago Manual of Style:
"DO use the apostrophe to form the plural of an abbreviation that combines upper and lowercase letters or has interior periods:
The department graduated five M.A.’s and two Ph.D.’s this year.
NOTE: If you leave out the periods, you can write MAs but you’d still have to write PhD’s.
DO use the apostrophe to form the plural of lowercase letters:
Mind your p’s and q’s."
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paulakonoske
December 26, 2008, 9:51am
What about the plural of our family name Konoske,
would that be Konoskes or Konoske's?
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lkp279
January 4, 2008, 7:38am
I have the need to discern what to do with the Leoneli(s) seizing an opportunity for a publication.
I recall a college English prof telling me not to change the endings on proper names (ie., all the Christys at the party, not all the Christies at the party).
I'm going to go with either "The Leonelis seized the opportunity" or the Leoneli family members or something like that if I don't think it alters the piece too much.
Thanks for your "debate."
We had another good one to contend with a while back: "faculty(s)" of all the schools. I cannot recall if we went with faculties or faculty members.
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JANJardin
May 11, 2013, 11:33am
(If the family name is Clinton.) Are these correct?
1. I'm going over to the Clintons' house.
and what about the short version:
I'm going over to the Clintons.
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Name ends with "Y"
January 9, 2013, 9:12am
Though my name is not as common as Kennedy or Murphy, it is one of those fortunate names that ends in a "y." (Notice the correct punctuation with a quotation mark so you can take me seriously.) I wouldn't cause much of a fuss, but still would feel a little insulted if the "y" in my last name was replaced entirely by an "ies." Regardless of the rules, I prefer the "ys" for pluralization.
Plus, I work in the legal field and have a BA in English. I agree with "Anonymous 2" that commonly-accepted writing should control. Language is constantly adapting and changing and to try to force the rules down another's throat is counter-intuitive to remaining current and relevant (the word "ask" was originally "aks" and some today are reverting, by common use, to the old pronunciation and spelling.)
When writing names in the legal field it is especially important to refer to someone with the exact spelling of their name or the opposing counsel can make an argument that you are creating confusion for the court (whether a judge agrees, the other side can still argue it and make you look stupid.)
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Warsaw Will
January 9, 2013, 10:46am
For anyone who thinks anonymous might be right, try googling "the kennedies" and you'lll get your answer.
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Joe (unregistered)
December 21, 2011, 8:52am
Pretty clear here:
http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/how-to-mak...
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Mandala
May 20, 2013, 12:32am
Anonymous is incorrect
http://data.grammarbook.com/blog/apostrophes/ti...
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E H Hall
May 15, 2012, 12:05pm
Ha--one of the problems with changing an ending *y* to *ies* for names is demonstrated with the name *Mary*, whose plural would in that case be identical to the plural for *Marie*. Mr. (or Ms.) "quite incorrect" is amazingly assertive for one so ill-informed.
As it happens, I live in the Rockies, and was aware of the exception. But I presume that Mr Balboa and others with his given name are Rockys.
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